Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

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KesaAnna
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by KesaAnna » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:18 am

Kerensky wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:40 pm
You know what I want to see in the Spanish Civil War?
Adolf Galland's historical insignia.

But alas, we can't have everything we want. :cry:
*hint hint* there's a giant multi billion dollar company that might not appreciate what his chosen insignia was. :P :roll:
Thanks for the hint. An interesting , and off - beat , emblem to be sure.

Somehow I'm not surprised though. For some reason , when I think of Adolf Galland , I think of Randolf Scott , or Ronald Reagan. Not a German stereotype , whatever that is.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by burbigo1 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:50 am

Thank you for the hint tho', kinda interesting !

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by Rood » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:47 am

So...
- a grand campaign
- starts in Spain and then to Czechoslovakia and the French Saar invasion, last 2 sound interesting
- bonus objectives
- more immersion
- new gameplay features like giving general orders to allied troops and a more varied AI

Hmmm
If I would have written a wishlist for upcoming new features/campaigns for PC2 I don't think I could have come up with something better :D.

Just amazing and really looking forward to this!

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by Kerensky » Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:03 pm

Rood wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:47 am
So...
- a grand campaign
- starts in Spain and then to Czechoslovakia and the French Saar invasion, last 2 sound interesting
- bonus objectives
- more immersion
- new gameplay features like giving general orders to allied troops and a more varied AI
To clarify, Poland 1939 is included in Axis Operations 1939. AO 1939 covers a variety of conflicts.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by adiekmann » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:34 am

I can't promise or reveal any of that information yet. :?:
Oh? I must have missed it somewhere, Kerensky, but I take this to mean that you (once again) had a hand in the design of these new DLCs? :P

That's a good thing because I've always appreciated and valued your opinion on design matters, even when they have disagreed with mine. Plus, you did a bang up job on PC1 (as was the work of nikivdd who I haven't seen in the PC2 forums :( ).

Design team: Love everything that I've heard about the new DLCs thus far! Can't wait!

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by milliethedog » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:20 pm

Hi Kerensky,
It was one of my extended Family that was responsible for Galland's aircraft nose art, His name was "Douglas Pitcairn of Perthshire" he was Galland's second in command in the Condor legion before moving to be Kapitan of 1./JG51 in july 1938. On a quick Historical note Disney never came after him for breaching copy right. I wonder why?

Yours
Martin

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by Kerensky » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:47 pm

milliethedog wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:20 pm
Hi Kerensky,
It was one of my extended Family that was responsible for Galland's aircraft nose art, His name was "Douglas Pitcairn of Perthshire" he was Galland's second in command in the Condor legion before moving to be Kapitan of 1./JG51 in july 1938. On a quick Historical note Disney never came after him for breaching copy right. I wonder why?

Yours
Martin
Well people have always said Disney (the man not the company) may have had some... interesting views. Just as they say about Henry Ford.

But more likely I think, I suspect Adolf Galland not being a businessman trying to make a company has more to do with why use of the imagery wasn't challenged on a copywrite claim. But who knows? I wouldn't even pretend to be an expert in such affairs.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by Ballacraine » Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:19 pm

I really like the way this has started out.
It adds depth & breadth to the Grand Campaign idea.
That is much better than merely rehashing the old grand campaigns, which would have been the easy lazy money grab approach.
I'm pleased to see that this isn't happening, at least at this early stage.
Also I am hoping for seamless integration of all DLCs, enabling the carrying of core units, heroes etc from previous campaigns.
One thing that always frustrated with the Panzer Corps Afrika Corps DLC, was that it did not permit core import from the earlier GCs.

The number of DLCs that there are likely to be put out make me wince a little, & I hope to see bundle discounts for those prepared to put their money up front.
Yes, I did go the Field Marshal Edition route & certainly do not regret it.
At some point I hope we get a Finnish War DLC. ;)

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by Retributarr » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:44 am

Ballacraine wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:19 pm
I really like the way this has started out.
It adds depth & breadth to the Grand Campaign idea.
That is much better than merely rehashing the old grand campaigns [Ret: I Agree!!!...yet there are those who see this as completely wrong!] , which would have been the easy lazy money grab approach.
I'm pleased to see that this isn't happening [Ret: And... So Am "I"]

Yes, I did go the Field Marshal Edition route & certainly do not regret it. [Ret: Nor do "I", yet... some see this Game as a 'Lost-Cause, a 'Waste-Of-Money'!]
At some point I hope we get a Finnish War DLC. ;) [Ret: That would be "Spectacular!!!."]



Finally!... at last it is so 'Refreshing' to come across some-one-else!... who is on the 'Same-Page'... as I am!. I tire of the 'Short-Sighted and Narrow-Minded'.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by kondi754 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:19 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:40 pm

You know what I want to see in the Spanish Civil War?
Adolf Galland's historical insignia.

But alas, we can't have everything we want. :cry:
*hint hint* there's a giant multi billion dollar company that might not appreciate what his chosen insignia was. :P :roll:
I doubt Galland is a good commander for use in the Spanish Civil War DLC because he didn't shoot down any aircraft in Spain
He flew in the squadron armed with He 51 (assault) and execute attacks on the republican ground troops only if I remember correctly and his first air combat took place in May 1940 over the Netherlands
The real Legion Condor stars were Molders, Harder, Oesau or Balthasar but not Galland yet

EDIT. So his insignia should appear in Sealion DLC IMHO :wink:

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by Kerensky » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:00 am

kondi754 wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:19 pm
I doubt Galland is a good commander for use in the Spanish Civil War DLC because he didn't shoot down any aircraft in Spain
He flew in the squadron armed with He 51 (assault) and execute attacks on the republican ground troops only if I remember correctly and his first air combat took place in May 1940 over the Netherlands
The real Legion Condor stars were Molders, Harder, Oesau or Balthasar but not Galland yet
This was taken into consideration. It's Staffelkaptan Galland who might show up towards the end of Spain, not Generalleutnant Galland. :wink:

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by Ballacraine » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:01 am

Will those of us that purchased the Field Marshal edition via GOG get the earlier access or just Steam customers?

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by SineMora » Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:49 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:00 am
This was taken into consideration. It's Staffelkaptan Galland who might show up towards the end of Spain, not Generalleutnant Galland. :wink:
Does this mean that we can expect a rework of heroes for the GC? I'll happily admit to a vested interest as I don't care for the number of overpowered heroes in the Wehrmacht campaign, but with well over a 100 scenarios expected by the end of the GC the number of heroes would get stupid if the same formula were to be used. Reducing heroes to a much smaller number of historical characters and tying them to bonus objectives seems a better approach, even if some of them in PzC1 were rather overpowered too (hello Oleh Dir :P ).
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http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=596&t=98034 -- Generalissimus AAR (no Liberator / Trophies / Heroes)

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by Kerensky » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:00 am

SineMora wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:49 pm
Does this mean that we can expect a rework of heroes for the GC? I'll happily admit to a vested interest as I don't care for the number of overpowered heroes in the Wehrmacht campaign, but with well over a 100 scenarios expected by the end of the GC the number of heroes would get stupid if the same formula were to be used. Reducing heroes to a much smaller number of historical characters and tying them to bonus objectives seems a better approach, even if some of them in PzC1 were rather overpowered too (hello Oleh Dir :P ).
Overpowered heroes are here to stay as far as I'm concerned.

If we nerf heroes, people who like them will be forced to work with a weaker system, they have no choice.
By leaving them as is, anyone who likes OP heroes can freely enjoy them. Anyone who doesn't, or finds certain combos to be utterly game breaking, can simply opt out or place personal restrictions on themselves. They can play with the 'no hero' setting. Or they can limit themselves to 1 hero per unit. Or they can adjust as they see fit.

And there are tools to fight against the most broken of combos. Something I'm considering for AI units with heroes is attaching a 'no surrender' hero. So if such a unit is hit with a combo Envelopment/Overwhelming attack, they will just shrug it off.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by laibachoid » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:18 pm

Czechoslovakia 1939 is not interesting. Czechoslovakia is interesting in September 1938. There was not much missing and the Czechs could defend themselves. An interesting scenario - fortresses, border mountains, a modern army (except for the Air Force) ... It is as realistic as the French invasion of the Saarland :-(

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by kondi754 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:47 pm

laibachoid wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:18 pm
Czechoslovakia 1939 is not interesting. Czechoslovakia is interesting in September 1938. There was not much missing and the Czechs could defend themselves. An interesting scenario - fortresses, border mountains, a modern army (except for the Air Force) ... It is as realistic as the French invasion of the Saarland :-(
I can't agree with this
Czechoslovakia had a strong heavy and arms industry (built with French money) but a weak army because most of the armaments production was exported, because the country had to repay huge foreign loans
Another issue is disastrous policy towards minorities, the Sudeten Germans were discriminated indeed, just like other nationalities - Slovaks, Hungarians, Poles and inhabitants of Transcarpathian Rus (Ukrainians)
To sum up, nobody wanted to defend their homeland, not even the Czechs themselves, so the idea of an alternative conflict in 1938 or 1939 is completely unreal IMHO

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by Kerensky » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:41 pm

What does interesting really mean? If it's Czech 1938... and we just made a military campaign to defeat Czechoslovakia by destroying units and capturing victory hexes... is that not just more of the same gameplay we're already seeing in your average Panzer Corps 2 scenario?

Whereas if it's March 1939, and there are historical considerations involved (annexation of border defenses as you pointed out)... well now it has to be a different kind of scenario design.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by RandomAttack » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:55 pm

Retributarr wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:44 am
Finally!... at last it is so 'Refreshing' to come across some-one-else!... who is on the 'Same-Page'... as I am!. I tire of the 'Short-Sighted and Narrow-Minded'.
Sheesh. So people that don't agree with you are short-sighted and narrow-minded? Notwithstanding your having exceeded your annual allotment of "quotation marks", not sure why you are so excited about this. A total of approximately 16,000 German citizens fought in the roughly 3-year war, with approximately 300 killed, though no more than 10,000 participated at any one time. It was a typical civil war-- lots of atrocities, mass executions, etc. So the Germans used it as a proving ground. This is no more than most major powers did when they participated in smaller conflicts. It is completely ARGUABLE whether this was a precursor to WWII. It was a civil war that took Spain DECADES to recover from. Spain was so devastated that the price Franco demanded for Hitler's access to Spain (i.e., to get to Gibraltar) couldn't be met. Not just wouldn't-- COULDN'T. So we're going to get a DLC that is at MOST a Division(minus) size event, and some say that the Germans were FAR more valuable as trainers for the Nationalists then active combatants. It's a sideshow both in numbers and strategic importance. I have no problem with such DLC, I just have a problem with it being the *first* DLC, which I prepaid for. Similar arguments about 1939/Phoney War DLC, except at least these are part of WWII. But they both will wind up being played as kind of an alternate history. Interesting for some, but the first two DLCs?? Given the TONS of interesting battles that have never been portrayed? For those that like this direction, I'm truly happy for you. But I am not happy for me, because I find both settings uninteresting as a PC2 setting. :cry:

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by Kerensky » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:09 am

RandomAttack wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:55 pm
But they both will wind up being played as kind of an alternate history. Interesting for some, but the first two DLCs?? Given the TONS of interesting battles that have never been portrayed? For those that like this direction, I'm truly happy for you. But I am not happy for me, because I find both settings uninteresting as a PC2 setting. :cry:
There were adjustments made to keep the 'Panzer' in Panzer Corps 2 content. I don't think anyone should be surprised by that.

In a bizarre twist, the Spanish Civil War actually has more Panzer-centric content than the base game, because of the dramatic change in infantry handling. As you said, German personnel deployment was pretty scarce, and the content reflects this... but probably not in the way you are thinking.

I'm sorry you are displeased with the contents of your mystery box, but maybe you will change your mind when you go hands on with the content itself. I'd like to think any fan of the original Grand Campaign would enjoy what the Axis Operations have put together... but we'll see one way or another soon enough.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Axis Operations DLCs announced

Post by laibachoid » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:05 am

kondi754 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:47 pm
I can't agree with this
Czechoslovakia had a strong heavy and arms industry (built with French money) but a weak army because most of the armaments production was exported, because the country had to repay huge foreign loans
Another issue is disastrous policy towards minorities, the Sudeten Germans were discriminated indeed, just like other nationalities - Slovaks, Hungarians, Poles and inhabitants of Transcarpathian Rus (Ukrainians)
To sum up, nobody wanted to defend their homeland, not even the Czechs themselves, so the idea of an alternative conflict in 1938 or 1939 is completely unreal IMHO
I can not agree. Discrimination? The only democracy in Central Europe and the most modern army in Central Europe. Study how many Czech weapons the Wehrmacht used against France ... In September 38, the Czechs mobilized. Yes, the Sudeten Germans were a problem. But there is a better scenario 38 than 39 when the Czechoslovak state could no longer defend itself practically - it lost a large part of its territory, industry and fortifications. On the contrary, an interesting scenario is the conflict between Germany and fully prepared Czechoslovakia. In 38, the Czechoslovaks could not defend themselves without the help of the Allies. But they could fight like the Poles in 39. As an occupied country, they still lost 350,000 people.

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