Public Beta 1.5.22

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Surtur
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Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by Surtur » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:43 am

Hi Everyone,

We are working on a new patch, but before the official release we would like you to help us try it out.

A) If you use the STEAM version:
1. In your Library, right-click Field of Glory II, and choose "Properties
2. In the new window, select the "Betas" tab
3. On the drop-down menu, select "openbeta - Open Beta", and click Close. Steam will proceed to update your game. right click on Field of Glory II, select Properties, then Betas, then openbeta. You can swap back to the release build easily the same way.

B) If you use the Slitherine/Matrix version, please download the open beta patch here:

http://ftp.matrixgames.com/pub/FieldOfG ... 1.5.22.zip

(Installing the Beta will NOT overwrite your Field of Glory II release build. You will get a Field of Glory II Beta icon on your desktop.)

If you have previously taken part in a non-STEAM Field of Glory 2 beta, you will need to uninstall "Field of Glory II Beta" (NOT "Field of Glory II"!) before running the beta installer.

------------------------------------------------

Please post your public beta feedback on its dedicated forum over at Slitherine:
viewforum.php?f=581

Changes:
- We have hopefully fixed the issue that caused systems with Radeon 5700 graphics card to display hill slopes as water. If you have such a system, please could you turn off dgVoodoo2 if you installed it as a workaround fix, and check that the beta version does in fact correct the issue without the dgVoodoo2 wrapper.
- We would also be interested in hearing whether the issue is also fixed on the Mac PC-emulators that previously had the same issue.
- The fix for the LOS bug (see below) required a change to the way an engine function worked. This should not, but potentially could, have knock on effects on the order in which the AI moves the units in a team, and in redeploying units in the Deployment phase. So please watch out for and report any anomalies with these or with LOS through blocking units.
-The new strings required for the change to the Heavy Weapon rules have not yet all been translated, so will appear in English in this beta version.

• Gameplay:
---o Heavy Weapon: Now cancels only the first 50 POA of enemy armour advantage. As previously, units with less than 100% HW remove only the equivalent proportion of the enemy armour advantage, but this is now explicitly stated in the detailed unit information panel (CTRL-LEFT click).
(The effect of the above is that 100% HW units will still cancel all armour advantage vs Armoured or less well protected units, but more heavily armoured enemy will retain some armour advantage if the HW troops are significantly less well armoured.)
---o Heavy Weapon: Armoured or better protected troops with Heavy Weapon get an extra +10 POA in melee vs all troops except elephants.
• Bug Fixes:
---o Fixed a rare bug that could occasionally allow shooting LOS through a unit.
---o Fixed issue that could cause systems with Radeon 5700 graphics cards to show hill slopes as water.

melm
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Re: Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by melm » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:06 pm

quick question. Manual table better armor up to +50 POA becomes obsolete right? I saw cata gets +100 POA.

rbodleyscott
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Re: Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:51 pm

melm wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:06 pm
quick question. Manual table better armor up to +50 POA becomes obsolete right? I saw cata gets +100 POA.
Yes, that was changed in v1.3.8 - see the full PatchNotes.rtf file in the main build.

Max POA for armour advantage vs mounted is +50.
Max POA for armour advantage vs foot is +100.

It was done with a view to Medieval knights, and to make Cataphracts better.
Richard Bodley Scott

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MVP7
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Re: Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by MVP7 » Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:19 pm

I played one battle as Vikings vs Germany and the HW Huscarls worked nicely in my opinion. The 10 POA bonus gives them little edge against the Dismounted Armoured Lancers/Cavalry but it's not so much that it would decide the battle on its own. The small bonus makes the HW feel more like a general-purpose sidegrade of the spear rather than the downgrade that it was before.

I'll try to play some games with Irish and maybe the Thracians/Dacians in the near future.

SnuggleBunnies
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Re: Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:33 pm

Played a Irish with Viking allies vs Byzantine skirmish match. I think this solution is elegant, not too complicated, and gives plausible results. The +10POA is enough to make a difference, but other factors, such as casualties from missile fire, can cancel it out. Feels right to me so far, but I'll mess around with some Thracian, Dacian, and other Viking matches too.

melm
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Re: Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by melm » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:04 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:51 pm
melm wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:06 pm
quick question. Manual table better armor up to +50 POA becomes obsolete right? I saw cata gets +100 POA.
Yes, that was changed in v1.3.8 - see the full PatchNotes.rtf file in the main build.

Max POA for armour advantage vs mounted is +50.
Max POA for armour advantage vs foot is +100.

It was done with a view to Medieval knights, and to make Cataphracts better.
Thanks, Richard.

I had some hotseat mode game playing around Huscarl(Axe) and Thracian Rhomphaia. My feeling is that cataphracts act like medieval knight now. I used to stop cataphracts successfully with Thracian Rhomphaia but now in open they almost surely fail for that they have 100 POA less. But it sounds realistic, doesn't it? Plus, spearmen and HW units now acts identically in melee. Spearmen cancels 50 sword POA and HW cancels 50 armor POA. So their odds against cavalry is about the same. It looks that spearmen is better than HW in all aspects adding the impact phase performance.

Besides, +10 POA for armored HW may not be a big issue unless it aggregates with unit size advantage. Then small grows big.

MikeC_81
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Re: Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by MikeC_81 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:57 am

Cataphracts definitely need their previous artificial point cost reduction removed. All of their previous issues have now been addressed to the point where they are easily one of the best buys in their bracket.
FoG 2 Post Game Analysis Series on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKmEROEwX2fgjoQLlQULhPg/

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Re: Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:49 am

MikeC_81 wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:57 am
Cataphracts definitely need their previous artificial point cost reduction removed. All of their previous issues have now been addressed to the point where they are easily one of the best buys in their bracket.
I know their having 50 Swordsmen POA vs infantry was already the case since WatG. So youo're saying that that change, combined with the fact that Heavy Weapon doesn't cancel their Armor Advantage means they should be recosted? Haven't tested enough to agree or disagree, just wanted to make sure I was understanding you right. I've only run one round of testing so far - 6 Citizen Hoplites standing their ground in the open vs 6 Cataphracts, neither with generals. The cataphracts eventually won, though it did take 20 turns of melee, with the Disrupted Catas hanging back until they rallied and charging in again. I'm not sure how this fits into Richard's vision for either troop type tbh.

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Re: Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by MikeC_81 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:49 am

SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:49 am
MikeC_81 wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:57 am
Cataphracts definitely need their previous artificial point cost reduction removed. All of their previous issues have now been addressed to the point where they are easily one of the best buys in their bracket.
I know their having 50 Swordsmen POA vs infantry was already the case since WatG. So youo're saying that that change, combined with the fact that Heavy Weapon doesn't cancel their Armor Advantage means they should be recosted? Haven't tested enough to agree or disagree, just wanted to make sure I was understanding you right. I've only run one round of testing so far - 6 Citizen Hoplites standing their ground in the open vs 6 Cataphracts, neither with generals. The cataphracts eventually won, though it did take 20 turns of melee, with the Disrupted Catas hanging back until they rallied and charging in again. I'm not sure how this fits into Richard's vision for either troop type tbh.
It has nothing to do with Heavy Weapons though that is a small edge case that also shows how Cats have had their matchups universally improved across the board.

Mathematically, they should have had their cost readjusted in 1.3.8 but since I dip in and out of this game I hadn't really felt the changes. I did the WatG beta but I never really zeroed in on Cats since we were busy dealing with the Raw Off. Spear issue. The Klipocats the Byzantines have access to I felt were beastly units but given they were 90 points and the army was weak as it was I didn't really look into it much. But now going back to Classical Antiquity this season, it is clear they should be put back where it was, keep in mind I haven't played Classical Antiquity since like Season 2. Since launch, Cats have effectively gotten at least +25 PoA vs most infantry across the board based on uncapping their armour alone. The primary reason for the cost adjustment was that armour bonuses used to be capped meaning that Cats were paying extra points for no gain in the vast majority of matchups. That is no longer the case. Now vs spears, units designed to specifically counter them, they get an additional +50 PoA in melee. They are now statistically able to handle any infantry unit other than full pike blocks and even then they can cost-effectively "trade" with a 72 pt pike block by sitting in front of one and ZoC locking it.

Another way to look at it is to compare a 64 pt Armored Superior Lancer and contrast the tradeoffs for a 68 point Cat. The amount of PoA gained in exchange for 4 points in many situations is massive for the relatively minor loss in maneuverability.
FoG 2 Post Game Analysis Series on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKmEROEwX2fgjoQLlQULhPg/

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Re: Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:51 am

A fair point. Perhaps 72pts would be an appropriate cost for catas now

MikeC_81
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Re: Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by MikeC_81 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:57 am

Happy to report that 5700XT works with the beta version.
FoG 2 Post Game Analysis Series on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKmEROEwX2fgjoQLlQULhPg/

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Re: Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by rbodleyscott » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:13 am

MikeC_81 wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:57 am
Happy to report that 5700XT works with the beta version.
Great. Thanks for the confirmation.
Richard Bodley Scott

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Re: Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by rbodleyscott » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:15 am

SnuggleBunnies wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:51 am
A fair point. Perhaps 72pts would be an appropriate cost for catas now
If we start seeing cataphract armies winning the FOG2DL sections in which they exist, then we should consider this.

Cataphracts still cost more than most of the infantry units they can (eventually) beat, and are actually less manoeuvrable than most of those (higher AP notwithstanding).

Looking at changes to the rules is not a good way of deciding whether they are currently correctly priced or not.

In terms of overall utility, armoured lancers are still (to me) looking like a good buy relative to cataphracts. This all depends on tactics of course, but the armoured lancers are greatly more flexible in this regard.

Ultimately the FOG2DL scores will deliver a verdict.
Richard Bodley Scott

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Re: Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by SnuggleBunnies » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:28 pm

Fair. I will start actually using catas in MP and see how they perform.

melm
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Re: Public Beta 1.5.22

Post by melm » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:20 pm

I created two Beta games for cataphracts using. Cataphracts is on my side. If anyone is intereted in using cataphracts, we can arrange another game.

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