How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Field of Glory II: Medieval

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RMM1812
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How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by RMM1812 » Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:12 pm

Im in a battle where i completely own the middle of the field, have routed most units, but for some reason they all come back as fragmented, and with each turn, the enemy gets constant rallies while i get none, and im winning.

Imagine having a 53% advantage over an enemy while he has all his units routing, having only routed 28% of your units, all who have left the map, but then in the next 3 turns he manages to get 5 units back from routed and within 2 turns, get it from fragmented to disrupted in the following turn, and fixing all his cohesion problems, in total, 3 turns, having more than 10 rallies for his troops, while you continue to rout more units because you completely control the battlefield and all his units are at the edge of the map, making the game last at least 24 turns because you won (but the last 3 turns he just keeps getting units back somehow, or making them appear in the battlefield). I even suspected of cheaters, imagine playing multiplayer for a month with a cheater. . . In 2 games today my enemies routed units reappeared, not just 1 got from rout to fragmented, but multiple per turn, which never would happen with AI. Also he had around 15 rallies i would assume to get his cohesion back all within 4 turns, for no reason, while i still have disrupted units who i never get 1 rally per turn. It feels 100% like a cheater, even though i don´t know how to prove it. I wish i had recorded the absurd that battle was.

^^^ The combinations above annoyed the **** [No profanity please] out of me from playing online. ^^^

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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by zakblood » Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:14 pm

random, but welcome to the forum all the same

RMM1812
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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by RMM1812 » Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:41 am

Im on turn 20 he is getting rallies since turn like 13 lmao, i keep getting himj fragmented and next turn he rallies every time 100% cheat no way. Kinda pushed me away from playing this when the enemy player has his whole army routed then starts to get 20 rallies on his units for the last 8 turns. Game is Fields of Glory II: Medieval.

RMM1812
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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by RMM1812 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:50 am

Turn 24, 67% in my favor 40%s on his, still not over, and he still gets rallies...

Edit: I finally won with 9800 kills on my Tartar vs Tartar challenge

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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by Athos1660 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:19 am

Rallying works fine (no bug, no cheat, no nerf needed, same chance on both sides) and is great fun imho. One of my favorite features with Pursuing. This lack of control ? So nice and realistic too. Puts nice obstacles in your way and adds spice to the battle (reversal of situation like irl). One of the reasons why FoG2 is so great.

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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by melm » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:39 am

RMM1812 wrote:
Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:41 am
Im on turn 20 he is getting rallies since turn like 13 lmao, i keep getting himj fragmented and next turn he rallies every time 100% cheat no way. Kinda pushed me away from playing this when the enemy player has his whole army routed then starts to get 20 rallies on his units for the last 8 turns. Game is Fields of Glory II: Medieval.
I have the same experience. For every turn, the opponent had one or two rallies. Some are the routed rallied, some are the frag or disrupted rallied. Perhaps you've got the same random seed as I did.

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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by Dux Limitis » Tue Feb 16, 2021 1:51 pm

It just a problem between lucky and unlucky.You know,luck is also one of the thing you need to win the battle too.

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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by tyronec » Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:45 pm

Am not sure if I follow this, didn't think the game worked like that.

If a player does a reload do they get different results for their rally cohesion tests ?

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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by Patrick Ward » Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:54 pm

Ignore this .. answer below ..
Last edited by Patrick Ward on Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by rbodleyscott » Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:02 pm

tyronec wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:45 pm
Am not sure if I follow this, didn't think the game worked like that.

If a player does a reload do they get different results for their rally cohesion tests ?
Actually no, they wouldn't, because those occur before they could do anything to alter the RNG sequence.
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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by RMM1812 » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:58 pm

Whatever reason you all think an opponent getting 20 rallies on horses as Tartar, when you already knew you won in turn 12 is kinda lame, it really made not just me feel unrealistic, but i think he got that felling too in the end. It made no sense the rallies, usually when one side has the advantage on AI games that side is the one that gets the units back (the side that is winning), not just crazy rallies for the loser 100% of time. It made me feel like the game doesnt really work, cause i knew i won and i even stated in chat ´´i think i won´´. He had no units left on middle of field but somehow his 9 light cavalry were alive far off the map. Last 2 turns he just started running away from me to delay my victory.

Also the fragmented unit that came back from routed, rally to change from frag to disrupted in the next turn, then in the next to normal cohesion is just...In all my games i couldnt get the routed unit that was frag to become disrupted within 1 turn, no matter if they were close to the army or anything really. I had a disrupted unit marching with my army for like 5 turns without rallying while he was just out there getting random rallies.

And since i knew he was just gonna keep rallying till the end of the game (his units that didnt go routed or i managed to get fragmented or disrupted, he would just run with them and get his rally to normal cohesion), i basically made an autobreak (*get his HP so low that the unit routs) strategy so that he wouldnt be able to rally them back (i hope) ever again.

To sum it up: i think rally is broken and is really innacurate with the balance of forces within the game. Not a single moment was he leading the battte. It also did not feel like the rally is random, since he was gaining them so often, no matter what.

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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:05 am

RMM1812 wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:58 pm
It also did not feel like the rally is random, since he was gaining them so often, no matter what.
And yet it really is random.
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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by chris_merchant » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:27 am

I remember Roger Keating telling me that players always remember the bad rolls but never the good rolls.

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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by Patrick Ward » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:19 pm

We've had similar discussions before, about whether to have truly random, or a Sid Meier / Civilization pseudo random, where every time a number is rolled, it reduces the chance of it being rolled again. Makes a farce of the game but apparently thats what a lot of people like. They want to believe that if you roll a 3, the next roll has less chance of being a 3.It's comforting.

And you're right that people don't remember the good things. We've evolved to mostly notice and remember those things that are seen to harm us, so we can survive.

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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by melm » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:27 pm

Truncated distribution can be considered. We can cut the 2% in the tail then normalize the distribution to prevent something very extreme happening.

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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by Athos1660 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:07 pm

OP seems also to imply that each unit of both sides is totally aware of the global situation on the battlefield, knowing as much as their General (the player) and reacting purely objectively/rationally : if they are on the side in the lead, they "must" rally more easily ; if they "know" their army is losing, they shouldn't rally (or rarely), as if knowing who's winning/losing the battle was a (unique) factor of rallying.

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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by Horde » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:24 pm

I dont think anyone is cheating, specially in MP. Sometimes you have bad luck, its the same with combat results. People use to have a bias to remember when they have bad luck, comparing when they were lucky. Theres something I have noted, though. Fleeing units doesnt usually rally one in a turn; you either have zero rallies of a couple of them. It seemed to me like a pattern, but perhaps its just random.

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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by rbodleyscott » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:30 pm

Horde wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:24 pm
It seemed to me like a pattern, but perhaps its just random.
It is just random. The discernment of patterns where no patterns exist is a feature of human psychology - it is called Apophenia.
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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by TheGrayMouser » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:39 pm

Patrick Ward wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:19 pm
We've had similar discussions before, about whether to have truly random, or a Sid Meier / Civilization pseudo random, where every time a number is rolled, it reduces the chance of it being rolled again. Makes a farce of the game but apparently thats what a lot of people like. They want to believe that if you roll a 3, the next roll has less chance of being a 3.It's comforting

P
I hope that slitherine never adopts such foolishness in any serious game they publish.

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Re: How to deal with sus cheaters or really bad rng in multiplayer?

Post by RMM1812 » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:28 pm

I think after reading this discussion im more implied to think that it shouldnt be random, and that after that match for me, winning or losing in multiplayer gives me no joy, cause i know the game is broken, cause if everything is a ´´toss of a coin´´ and theres no mechanics to it, then the game even more makes no sense for strategy genre. I dont know how the roll works, i just had a really bad game that made no sense in any kind. Its like, ´´okay i know you only have 9 light cavalry and 3 nomads that came back, and that i have basically my whole army (4 expert horse archers, 4 best equipper cav, 5 nomad horsse archers and 2 light cav, but somehow you still have a chance to beat me, even though in reality you have none´´.

And then the game goes random based on something that you know you r winning...its even more broken.

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