Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

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KendallB
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Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by KendallB » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:29 pm

They don't seem to be anywhere even though they fought in Ney's III Corps as a division.

Could they be added as an Allied contingent providing a maximum of 8 Line Infantry bases and 4 bases of Light Infantry with rifles (half the brigade were armed with rifles or rifles carbines)? Going by their performance, especially in the retreat, I'd rate them at Average Veteran.

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by terrys » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:43 pm

Interesting question this - We did have Ney's 3rd Corps scheduled for a seperate list but it got cut somewhere along the line.

Code: Select all

Could they be added as an Allied contingent providing a maximum of 8 Line Infantry bases and 4 bases of Light Infantry with rifles (half the brigade were armed with rifles or rifles carbines)? Going by their performance, especially in the retreat, I'd rate them at Average Veteran.
Seems a reasonable thing to do. The Wurttemberg Cavalry were in a division mixed with French, so would form part of an otherwise French light cavalry division.

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by KendallB » Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:55 pm

Would there be any way of publishing some of the left out lists like online as a pdf. This looks like a fun corps to field with the Portuguese and Croats as well.

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by terrys » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:45 am

Would there be any way of publishing some of the left out lists like online as a pdf. This looks like a fun corps to field with the Portuguese and Croats as well.
I guess there could be - I'll have a word with JD about it.

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by bahdahbum » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:35 am

:D The croats served with the swiss in the same division

By the way, where is the portuguese chasseur à cheval regiment ? I did not check the strenght of that unit but the uniform was the same as that of the french regiments except the color was brown and they received the shako latter but they where in russia ....I guess we can field it as a "regular" french unit ...just a color change

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by bahdahbum » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:18 pm

By the way i Checked Ney's 3rd corps . An interesting one : 4 swiss regiments, the Yllirian/croat 3rd regiment, 2 portugeese regiment, the 123th line regiment( what some french people ) and Wurtemburg with a Generalmajoor named .... Von Bruxelles ... I need that corps ! ...yes I am Belgian ...and guess what ...on the russian side you have a Brigade general in Tormassov's army . His name is Léopold de Saxe-Cobourg ...our future first king :D

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by MikeHorah » Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:42 pm

You can use the 1809 Wurttemburg list to give you their classifications for 1812 and/or import an infantry division fom there which would have been the easiest way to allow for Ney's Corps. It's unlikely I would have changed them much for 1812 and there is also the 1815 list but I'd go for the 1809 .

The Croats and Port Legion we would treat as part of the French army ( not a national contingent as such as their countries as such either did not exist or were not actually allies by then ). In Emperors and Eagles we set out the approach on page 96 ( as part of the 1805-07 lists) for foreign regiments which is if we have not specified them in a given list they ae treated as French so within the French maxima and minima for a type it's how you want to rate them.

Retrofitting that piece into the first list set was not possible .

I must say I did not set out to model every Corps of the grande armee in 1812 but this is an opportunity missed - especially as I have Croats and Port Legion myself in my collection!!! :cry: :cry:

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by bahdahbum » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:04 am

The Croats and Port Legion we would treat as part of the French army
In TON you have the croats and portugese as distinct units, part of the french army . :D

The croats ( must be the 1st or 4th regiment as the 3rd fought with ney ), can also be part of the Royal Italan army but are not as good being "poor" while fighting for the Italians .

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by Ambiorix » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:02 pm

bahdahbum wrote:...on the russian side you have a Brigade general in Tormassov's army . His name is Léopold de Saxe-Cobourg ...our future first king
Jacques, very interesting but are you sure about this, where did you find this info?

AFAIK our Leopold was a Russian Cuirassier general and charged in the battle of Kulm in 1813; Tormasov had no cuirassiers, so which brigade did he command ?
Ambiorix,
"Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae"

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by bahdahbum » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:37 am

I had that info some 20 years ago ...anyway he took part in many campaigns and ended "général de Brigade" :D

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by Jilu » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:20 am

En 1808, il accompagne Alexandre Ier, pendant sa rencontre avec Napoléon à Erfurt. Bien que n'ayant absolument aucune expérience militaire, il se voit confier par son beau-frère le Grand-duc Constantin tous les escadrons de cavalerie disponibles au combat de Kulm où il montrera sa valeur et sa bravoure, chargeant les troupes françaises clouées sur place à la tête de ses troupes. Le soir du combat, il est décoré de la Croix de Saint-Georges. Il participe ainsi, en tant que colonel d’un régiment de cavalerie russe, aux campagnes de 1807, 1808, 1813 et aux batailles de Lützen, Bautzen et Leipzig contre les troupes Françaises en 1814. Ces batailles lui valent le titre de général de division de l'Armée russe.

In 1808, he accompanied Alexander I, during his meeting with Napoleon at Erfurt. While having absolutely no military experience, he was appointed by his brother the Grand Duke Constantine all available cavalry squadrons to battle of Kulm where he will show his valor and bravery, charging the French troops nailed up at the head of his troops. The night of the fight, he was decorated with the Cross of St. George. He participated as a colonel of a regiment of cavalry Russian campaigns of 1807, 1808, 1813, and the battles of Lutzen, Bautzen and Leipzig against the French troops in 1814. These battles earned him the title of Major General of the Russian Army.


BTW it could be fun to try to refight some battles of the Belgianrevolution of 1830...not much seemed to have changed in the way of doing battle...

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by MCorbett » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:48 pm

I realise this is an old thread - but was there any conclusion to this? I'm also collecting Wurttembergers and would like to have the option to use them in the 1812 campaign.

Thanks

Mark

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by terrys » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:22 pm

I realise this is an old thread - but was there any conclusion to this? I'm also collecting Wurttembergers and would like to have the option to use them in the 1812 campaign.
I will be adding the following to the French Infantry Corps 1812 next time I publish an update to the ToN lists
> Page 46: 4th Bullet point
> INSERT after "French, but" insert "unless Wurttembers,"

> Page 46: Allied Contingent list
> Insert additional lines under CORE INFANTRY
Wurttemberg Line Infantry Average Drilled - 10 4 0 8
or Poor Drilled - 8 4 0 8
Combined maximum bases - 12
Wurttemberg Light Infantry Light Infantry Average Drilled - 12 4 4 4
Wurttember Jagers Light Infantry Average Veteran Rifles 16 4 or 6 4 6
Combined maximum bases - 6

> Page 47:
> Insert addition entry under CORE CAVALRY
Wurttemberg Light cavalry Average Drilled - 8 4 or 6 0 8
or Average Veteran - 10 4 or 6 0 8
Combined maximum bases - 8

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by Blathergut » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:39 pm

Nice additions! :twisted:

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by MCorbett » Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:57 pm

Excellent, thanks!

I can use my Wurttembergers across the whole period now.

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by Blathergut » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:09 pm

That makes four units of light infantry available to this corps without bringing in the ever-expensive guard!

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by SirGarnet » Tue May 13, 2014 7:10 am

terrys wrote: I will be adding the following to the French Infantry Corps 1812 next time I publish an update to the ToN lists
> Page 46: 4th Bullet point
> INSERT after "French, but" insert "unless Wurttembers,"
So it would read "Infantry from the Allied Contingents list may not be used in divisions containing any French, but unless Wurttembergers may be combined in infantry or mixed divisions with other allied contingents."

meaning the Wurttemberger infantry may be fielded only in divisions entirely of Wurttembergers.

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by terrys » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:17 pm

So it would read "Infantry from the Allied Contingents list may not be used in divisions containing any French, but unless Wurttembergers may be combined in infantry or mixed divisions with other allied contingents."

meaning the Wurttemberger infantry may be fielded only in divisions entirely of Wurttembergers.
Correct.

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Re: Where are the Wurttembergers in 1812?

Post by richafricanus » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:09 am

Trawling through the old list discussions, here's an old one that never seems to have made it into the errata that we'll make sure is in v2.

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