guard cossacks

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bahdahbum
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guard cossacks

Post by bahdahbum » Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:42 pm

I wonder why guard cossacks are "irregular" . I would have tought that they would be "battle" light cavalry .
Now I will not loose any sleep because of that as having a full guard cavalry division on table would be a scenario game ... but still I wonder .


from : http://www.napolun.com/mirror/napoleoni ... ssacks.htm

The Lifeguard Cossack Regiment was the creme-de-la-creme of Cossacks. They were men selected for their height and strength. Many came from regular cavalry.
In 1813 at the Battle of Leipzig the Lifeguard Cossacks counterattacked the French and Saxon cuirassiers from the front while the Prussian Neumark dragoons and Silesian cuirassiers struck from the eastern flank. It was too much for the French, they were pushed back everywhere and pursued until the positions of Drouot's batteries. The pursuers were halted only by artillery fire and counter-attack made by the Old Guard dragoons.

deadtorius
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by deadtorius » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:50 pm

Seems like perhaps they should be regular now doesn't it?

KendallB
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by KendallB » Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:57 pm

Everything I have read about them indicates that they were permanently established.

terrys
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by terrys » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:58 pm

I'll have a word with Mike, but I tend to agree that they should be regular.

bahdahbum
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by bahdahbum » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:05 pm

Mind you . I do not even ask for them to be lancers . I think regular light cavalry is a good compromise .They used lance but should they be "lancers" ...that is another question .

bahdahbum
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by bahdahbum » Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:48 pm

Anything new ...

I know FOGN is just a game but might we have some official decision one day

The same for the Russian lancers that are missing in 1805-1807 and were present as one regiment of +/- 1500 horsemen

The russian guard in 1806-1807 as they fought at friedland

The russian guard jaegers that fought at Borodino ...1800 men ...

Ok I'll leave :D

terrys
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by terrys » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:33 pm

Anything new ...

I know FOGN is just a game but might we have some official decision one day
The same for the Russian lancers that are missing in 1805-1807 and were present as one regiment of +/- 1500 horsemen
The russian guard in 1806-1807 as they fought at friedland
The russian guard jaegers that fought at Borodino ...1800 men ...
I hope to have new errata out by the end of december. These MAY get added to that.....as long as any change is a simple one.

bahdahbum
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by bahdahbum » Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:35 pm

As you come to IWC , how many belgian beers to have an errata before IWC ? :D :D :D :D

Sarmaticus
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by Sarmaticus » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:45 pm

bahdahbum wrote:Mind you . I do not even ask for them to be lancers . I think regular light cavalry is a good compromise .They used lance but should they be "lancers" ...that is another question .
I can't see why they wouldn't be lancers: they were elite regulars who's national weapon was the lance. I can't see them being less skilled than, say, French chevauxleger lanciers.
Btw Marbot, who had little good to say about the lance, armed as much of his chasseurs a cheval regiment as he could with lances in 1814.

bahdahbum
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by bahdahbum » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:51 pm

Cab we have a decision for the guard cossacks please :D

Light cavalry regular drilled or veteran , lancers guard average or Superior ....or still irregular

MikeHorah
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by MikeHorah » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:42 am

bahdahbum wrote:Cab we have a decision for the guard cossacks please :D

Light cavalry regular drilled or veteran , lancers guard average or Superior ....or still irregular

My View would be regular light cavalry , drilled, superior , guard, with lance optional, max 4 bases. The issue of irregular cossacks as lancers also needs to be resolved generally. I am inclined to say you can opt (like stakes with longbowmen in FOG(AM)) for all or none to have the lance in Western Europe and against the Turks all of them . Some of the irregular Russian irregular cavalry were not of course all Cossacks and I still maintain there is a difference between the way an irregular unit uses the lance and the way a drilled regular lancer unit does. But I wouldn't want to get too hung up over relatively minor technological issue in what is a fairly homogenous era in those terms .

Terry?

bahdahbum
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by bahdahbum » Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:51 pm

I have no problems with the cossacks as they are now; except for those guard cossacks and mostly for scenarii .At Leipzig the 800 cossacks did drive the french cavalry back arguably after the french charge . But it is not their only charge.

Guard cossacks were cossacks in name only as they came from other regular line régiments ( hussars,dragoon etc..). They had to be big :D

terrys
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by terrys » Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:41 pm

I'd be prepared to upgrade Cossacks as follows:

Lifeguard Cossacks: Upgrade all to Drilled/Lancers at 3pts per base.
Other Cossacks: Upgrade to Lancers at 2pts per base - All or none

There are several references about Ukrainian Cossacks as being 'Regular' - Particularly in the Balkan campaign against the Turks.
Of course this may only be relative to other Cossacks.
Next time I upgrade the relevant lists I will consider the possibility or upgrading a proportion of Cossacks to 'drilled/skirmishers' at +1 pt.

bahdahbum
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by bahdahbum » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:45 pm

Well there is that question of "regular" and "irregular" units. One thing is for sure, there are some accounts of cossack charges, and frontal charges and not always against blown cavalry.

Perhaps as you propose, some units might be drilled / lancers, some not . But their best role was as messengers, recon, and harrasment . But guard coaascks are another story !

terrys
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by terrys » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:35 pm

I would only accept non-guard Cossacks as drilled if they were skirmishers only.
They were very reluctant to confront enemy regular cavalry of any type. As drilled/skirmishers they would have the same disadvantages as irregulars, but would have a better chance of passing the test to charge - if required.

bahdahbum
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Re: guard cossacks

Post by bahdahbum » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:15 pm

Seems a good solution to me

See you in a few days do not forget your army list :D

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