tadamson wrote:For this period it's pretty clear that both English and Welsh forces could be entirely mounted. That said SOP was to dismount before battle. Such detail as we have of mounted combat doesn't mention missile weapons (bows, crossbows, javelins etc). If it happened it could and should be subsumed into normal combat factors (there is, of course a similar argument for abandoning 'lancer' status
).
On the other hand if we allow, and cost, such men as LH then there is a danger of Welsh (and English) armies fighting in a very a-historical manner. Best left off the lists. I do think that mounted infantry ought to be allowed though.
As an aside, it occurs to be that the mounted flank attack by Jean de Grailly, the Captal de Buch at Potiers is described as 'equites' rather than men-at-arms so probably included mounted archers. Though many of the 'archers' in the Anglo-Gascon force used crossbows. Isn't terminology wonderful...
Hello Tom. Yes, I was only thinking of maybe a couple of mounted archer units, maybe LH, and possibly with an “S” to indicate that they could be dismounted at the start of the battle so they could fire. It is only at Myndd Hygdden 1401 where there is a possibility that some Welshmen fired from the saddle – I expect that most of them rode out of the trap, dismounted, and then shot their longbows at the English who were floundering in the very difficult terrain.
As you say, it was normal at this time to dismount before fighting. The one pitched battle from the revolt that we know a lot about is Pilleth in 1402 (covered in detail in the “Battlefield Britain” programme) and there just about everyone seems to be dismounted. In actual fact, the Medieval Welsh list in FOG is specifically for the Welsh Revolt but it is hard to see where their numerous mounted lancer units would actually have been used. There were battles such as Grosmont and Pwell Melyn where we have very little information – but perhaps the wisest assumption to make here is that they were quite small-scale encounters. Similarly, Glyndwr made a raid into Shropshire in 1410 and ambushed a long-standing opponent, Dafydd Gam, at Brecon in 1412 but these would not have involved very large numbers of lancers either.
I agree that the idea of mounted infantry would be an interesting development. Maybe it would need to take one complete turn for the troops to dismount and then assemble in the appropriate formation? Certainly if we get a modding facility with the PC game then it may be something that can be experimented with in the future.
Just to end up with this – I wrote it in the PC forum a few days ago about the French contingent that arrived in Wales in 1405 . . .
"finally, concerning the French contingent (the "Allies" in the DAG list) that landed at Milford Haven in 1405 - we know that they comprised of about 3,000 men. Of these, around 800 were knights and 600 were crossbowmen and the other 1,600 are sometimes described as "lightly-armed" troops. The knights and crossbowmen are included in the DAG list, but not these other chaps. It is not absolutely clear to me who they were. Maybe some were assistants to the knights (grooms etc) but perhaps some were Bretons and other lightly armed infantry. Perhaps they could be represented in the DAG as a mixture of MF swordsmen and LF javelinmen? The French contingent actually represented about 25% of the combined Franco-Welsh force that invaded England in 1405 so there would be room to increase the French contingent in the DAG. Maybe something like this would represent the French quite well . . .
French Knights 2-3 (not a maximum of 4 units)
Crossbowmen 1-2 ( not a maximum of 3 units)
Infantry 2-3
Skirmishers 1-2"
Any thoughts?