AAR: Operation Barbarossa-Fortress Europa(no Massina please)

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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supermax
Lieutenant Colonel - Panther D
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Turn 32: Operation Barbarossa

Post by supermax » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:16 am

Well, the Russian sure did get a good ol' sucker punch. Brest Litovsk, Vilna, Chisinau and Vinnitsa fall on the first turn of attack. Lets now see Massina'S opening moves. He seems ot want to put up some resistance near Minsk, we will see where that leads us. I would certainly like that he does so. I also hope he is going to try to outmanoever me, i am very difficult to master when my opponent does so.

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Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:00 am

This Barbarossa is...mediocre. I think allied player should fight axis armies and stop them in this case...but looks like Massina don't bother even to defend Dnepr line...If he will give you western part of USSR for free, you will have good chances to defend succesfully until the very end.

leridano
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Post by leridano » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:38 am

Plaid wrote:This Barbarossa is...mediocre. I think allied player should fight axis armies and stop them in this case...but looks like Massina don't bother even to defend Dnepr line...If he will give you western part of USSR for free, you will have good chances to defend succesfully until the very end.
I don´t think this Barbarossa is mediocre. I really think is rather a strong Barbarossa.

Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:59 am

Well, maybe its strong in fact, but not enough for decisive victory. But only time I managed to make strong push straight to Moscow I had two times more armour.

supermax
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Post by supermax » Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:10 pm

Plaid wrote:Well, maybe its strong in fact, but not enough for decisive victory. But only time I managed to make strong push straight to Moscow I had two times more armour.
You talkin about the number of units i have?

I have destroyed Russia times and over again in GS with 4 tanks. Only mediocre players need many tanks to beat Russia.

Anyway its not the best i cold have done its not like i am in a strong position with oil... So having too many tanks could be a problem.

joerock22
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Post by joerock22 » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:00 pm

Plaid wrote:This Barbarossa is...mediocre. I think allied player should fight axis armies and stop them in this case...but looks like Massina don't bother even to defend Dnepr line...If he will give you western part of USSR for free, you will have good chances to defend succesfully until the very end.
I disagree. Perhaps it's relatively weak if you're only looking at power, but in terms of speed, this is very strong indeed. Max has captured several key cities on the first turn which most people aren't able to accomplish, expecially Vinnitsa. You also have to remember that he has very high production, and because he invaded early, he has plenty of time to produce and rail in more units before the Russians can mount a strong defense. Defending for more than one turn at the Dnepr would be suicide for Massina this game, and even that's risky.

Yes, I'm speaking from personal experience here. :)

supermax
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Post by supermax » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:25 pm

joerock22 wrote:
Plaid wrote:This Barbarossa is...mediocre. I think allied player should fight axis armies and stop them in this case...but looks like Massina don't bother even to defend Dnepr line...If he will give you western part of USSR for free, you will have good chances to defend succesfully until the very end.
I disagree. Perhaps it's relatively weak if you're only looking at power, but in terms of speed, this is very strong indeed. Max has captured several key cities on the first turn which most people aren't able to accomplish, expecially Vinnitsa. You also have to remember that he has very high production, and because he invaded early, he has plenty of time to produce and rail in more units before the Russians can mount a strong defense. Defending for more than one turn at the Dnepr would be suicide for Massina this game, and even that's risky.

Yes, I'm speaking from personal experience here. :)
Speaking of production joe... I need your advice. Should i produce regardless of crossing the 75% manpower threshold? I am inclining to yes because i need the raw power now, but then again i'll pay later... I am now at 78%...

supermax
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Post by supermax » Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:48 pm

Plaid wrote:Well, maybe its strong in fact, but not enough for decisive victory. But only time I managed to make strong push straight to Moscow I had two times more armour.
Speed is more important than might in 1941 against Russia.

joerock22
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Post by joerock22 » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:58 pm

supermax wrote:Speaking of production joe... I need your advice. Should i produce regardless of crossing the 75% manpower threshold? I am inclining to yes because i need the raw power now, but then again i'll pay later... I am now at 78%...
I think you should. A smaller army is fine in the beginning, but you need more infantry to fill in the gaps as the front expands. I usually produce nothing but straight corps while Barbarossa is going on, regardless of that first manpower threshold. You're only losing 1 quality, which doesn't make much of a difference in the unit's fighting ability.

supermax
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Turn 33: Operation barbarossa continues

Post by supermax » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:53 am

Well, this turn Riga, Minsk, Odessa and... Kiev fell to the germans. We are making good speed we should be at the outskirts of Kharkov on june 22nd, which should put us into an iteresting position.

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German 1st panzer corps advance elements in the drive to Kiev culminating in the taking of the city on june 2nd

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German elements of 2nd panzer corps south of Kiev reorganizing after the fall of the city

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Troops hitching a ride north of Minsk with 3rd panzer corps. The russians are in full flight.

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German infantry in the infinite fields of the Ukraine, east of Vinnitsa. The german infantry, even if lagging behind the german tanks, is not tof ar behind.

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Another wave of Russian soldiers taken prisonner near Kiev.

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Heavy fighting in the Riga outskirts, hindered by low german air support and no armor division int he area.

supermax
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Turn 34: Gomel, Dnepropretrosvsk, Tallin and Pskov falls.

Post by supermax » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:21 am

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Rhialto
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Post by Rhialto » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:27 pm

Not bad progress for a 'mediocre' Barbarossa :wink:

supermax
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Post by supermax » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:41 am

Rhialto wrote:Not bad progress for a 'mediocre' Barbarossa :wink:
Yep, maybee youve got something right here... :)

supermax
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Turn 35

Post by supermax » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:45 am

Vitebsk, Stalino, Rostov, BRyansk and Smolensk falls amidst total soviet inactivity. This is getting annoying i am going to have to find a way to engage the russians. IF MAssina continues to evade me he will surely be able to avoid the brunt of the german offensive.

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joerock22
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Post by joerock22 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:20 am

If Massina has any balls, he will counter-attack, my tanks are dangerously explosed.
Balls yes, brains no. :) I find that it's usually better to play with the latter.

supermax
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Post by supermax » Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:56 am

joerock22 wrote:
If Massina has any balls, he will counter-attack, my tanks are dangerously explosed.
Balls yes, brains no. :) I find that it's usually better to play with the latter.
Or play with both at the same time, its even a better combo! :)

supermax
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Turn 36: Kharkov falls

Post by supermax » Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:30 am

German presure increase significantly in the south. The front is now ressembling a deatch trap for the Russians. I HOPE that MAssina will stay and fight and then i will get my major move and destroy most of his forces in the south. We should be making good progrss next turn toward Krasnodar and Maikop and towards Groznyi

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supermax
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Turn 37: Plowing thru soviet defenses

Post by supermax » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:51 am

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On other fronts, we formed the gustav line this turn and moved some units into Spain as well. We cannot stay inactive. Also moved some fighters down in Romania since Masina bombed it with 2 bombers based out of Albania, OVER neutral territory. Another nice glitch for this game to exploit. Taking good note of this one for future games. :)

Honestly Massina is not doing bad in Russia. He will lose close to 4.5 million Russians, but at least he is giving me a good run for my money.

joerock22
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Re: Turn 37: Plowing thru soviet defenses

Post by joerock22 » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:08 am

supermax wrote:Honestly Massina is not doing bad in Russia. He will lose close to 4.5 million Russians, but at least he is giving me a good run for my money.
It's hard to do "well" as the Russians when supermax puts on his super-Blitzkreig-ing shoes. :)

Rhialto
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Re: Turn 37: Plowing thru soviet defenses

Post by Rhialto » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:18 am

supermax wrote: On other fronts, we formed the gustav line this turn and moved some units into Spain as well. We cannot stay inactive. Also moved some fighters down in Romania since Masina bombed it with 2 bombers based out of Albania, OVER neutral territory. Another nice glitch for this game to exploit. Taking good note of this one for future games. :)
Not really a glitch. Quite a common expedient in WW2. See this:

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n6p15_Hoffmann.html

For other wars, the US flew over Cambodia during the Viet Nam war and of course, if Israel carries out its threatened strike against Iran's nuclear facilities it will have to cross Saudi or Iraqi or Syrian airspace to do so, and much of the mission planning involves this aspect.

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