Historical AAR - Axis versus Allied AI (The AI Concedes)

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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leridano
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Post by leridano » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:59 pm

rkr1958 wrote: I agree 100% with Borger. Even with my older eyes ( :lol: ) the green on blue stands out just fine for me. As Borger pointed out the orange in the desert (e.g., look at Libya) is harder for me to dintinguish. Is that a 3 or an 8 or even possibly a 5? No problem there either. It's orange and I know the units in trouble. I click on the unit to see it's a 3.

What I mean is that with the old vanilla system the strength number of the italian BB unit would be white so there wouldn´t be any problem to distinguish it.

I know about the low visibility of the orange strength level. So the question here is why to include this new colour if doing this brings more visibility problems in certain cases than the older white one.
Stauffenberg wrote:The point is to find a color that will be usable in most combinations.
Yes, and this colour is the white. :)



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    Post by rkr1958 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:40 pm

    leridano wrote:
    Stauffenberg wrote:The point is to find a color that will be usable in most combinations.
    Yes, and this colour is the white. :)
    What? It doesn't make sense to me to make the strength number white for the 3-step, and orange effectiveness, Italian infantry corps in the Libyan desert. I prefer having it orange, which visually quickly, tells me I've got a unit in trouble. Making all of the colors white in order to see the strengths better versus having effectiveness numbers of different colors that sometimes makes seeing the stength number difficult (e.g., orange in the desert) is certainly a tradeoff; but I perfer having the colors.

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    Post by leridano » Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:14 pm

    rkr1958 wrote:
    leridano wrote:
    Stauffenberg wrote:The point is to find a color that will be usable in most combinations.
    Yes, and this colour is the white. :)
    What? It doesn't make sense to me to make the strength number white for the 3-step, and orange effectiveness, Italian infantry corps in the Libyan desert. I prefer having it orange, which visually quickly, tells me I've got a unit in trouble. Making all of the colors white in order to see the strengths better versus having effectiveness numbers of different colors that sometimes makes seeing the stength number difficult (e.g., orange in the desert) is certainly a tradeoff; but I perfer having the colors.

    I meant to come back to old system when white colour was for effectiveness >60 so I was not talking of removing orange colour. But now that you have mentioned this it wouldn´t be so bad a system in which all units have a white strength number regardless of effectiveness level so e.g. we could implement a coloured dot on the top right/left of the unit showing the health of the unit. :idea: :?:
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      Post by rkr1958 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:29 am

      Turn 27. February 2, 1941.

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      Post by rkr1958 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:58 am

      Turn 28. February 22, 1941. Athens' Defenders Barely Hold On!

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      Post by rkr1958 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:32 am

      Turn 29. March 14, 1941. Athens captured. Greece Surrenders! UK Mech corps destroyed in North Africa.

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      Post by rkr1958 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:33 am

      Turn. 30. April 3, 1941 Axis. Yugoslavia Invaded and Barely Holding On.

      A bit of bad luck in Yugoslavia. The Belgrade defenders were down to 2-steps with an armor corps attacking across a river and the 1st FJR division (if necessary). It was necessary with the armor corps inflicting no losses (2-steps expected) and the 1st FJR inflicting 1-step of loss (1-steps expected). No bigger though. Even repaired back to 4-steps the defenders should be knocked out by 2 ground attacks. The air will rebase to the Eastern Front for the upcoming attack on Russia. Assuming I knock out Yugoslavia next turn then I will still score a "green" due to the fact that the GS game conquest date (which will be April 23) is less than 1-turn greater than the historical conquest date (April 17).

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      Last edited by rkr1958 on Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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      Post by rkr1958 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:09 am

      Turn 31. April 23, 1941 Axis. Yugoslavia Falls. Axis Break Through British Forces in the Desert.

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      Post by rkr1958 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:42 am

      Turn 32. May 13, 1941 Axis.

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      Post by rkr1958 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:27 am

      Turn 33. June 2, 1941 Axis.

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      _Augustus_
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      Post by _Augustus_ » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:36 am

      Hi,

      I'm curious what are the rules you have set up for yourself regards Finland?

      _augustus_

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      Post by rkr1958 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:16 pm

      _Augustus_ wrote:Hi,

      I'm curious what are the rules you have set up for yourself regards Finland?

      _augustus_
      4. (German) Axis Minors. Hungarian, Romania, Bulgarian and Finnish units will not be used for anti-partisan (i.e., counter resistance) operations in France or garrison of French cities. Axis minors, which can always be used within the own country as necessary; will be used outside their home country as follows. Bulgarian units can be used in Yugoslavia and Greece after these countries are conquered. Hungarian units can be used in Yugoslavia, including support of the invasion, and later can be used in southern Russia only. Romanian units will only be used in southern Russia (i.e., outside of Romanian). Finnish units can attack Russian units but cannot move beyond the limits of their initial starting positions. That is, they can’t be used to push deeper into Russia.

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      Post by _Augustus_ » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:13 pm

      Cheers,
      rkr1958 wrote:Finnish units can attack Russian units but cannot move beyond the limits of their initial starting positions. That is, they can’t be used to push deeper into Russia.
      Okay I don't know what are their initial starting position exactly in the new version. But you could allow them to takeover city of Petrozavodsk and lineup for defense at the river line SE of the city. This is what they did historically. Okay, they did cross the river in places but effectivle stopped there.

      What Mannerheim specifically didn't do was to continue the push in the Karelian Isthmus to reach and attack Leningrad(too costly fight in a city and the assault would get Finland sucked into politics between the great power even more) but stopped at the old border. Nor did he want to cut off the Murmansk railroad line because this would have pissed off the Western Allies. So may I suggest you not attacking Leningrad from NW either with Finnish nor German forces. How many German troops you allow to operate from Finnish turf anyway?

      Sincerely,

      _augustus_ //Oh and picuture showing how far the troops went
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      rkr1958
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      Post by rkr1958 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:00 pm

      _Augustus_ wrote:Cheers,
      rkr1958 wrote:Finnish units can attack Russian units but cannot move beyond the limits of their initial starting positions. That is, they can’t be used to push deeper into Russia.
      Okay I don't know what are their initial starting position exactly in the new version. But you could allow them to takeover city of Petrozavodsk and lineup for defense at the river line SE of the city. This is what they did historically. Okay, they did cross the river in places but effectivle stopped there.

      What Mannerheim specifically didn't do was to continue the push in the Karelian Isthmus to reach and attack Leningrad(too costly fight in a city and the assault would get Finland sucked into politics between the great power even more) but stopped at the old border. Nor did he want to cut off the Murmansk railroad line because this would have pissed off the Western Allies. So may I suggest you not attacking Leningrad from NW either with Finnish nor German forces. How many German troops you allow to operate from Finnish turf anyway?

      Sincerely,

      _augustus_ //Oh and picuture showing how far the troops went
      After looking at the deployments I do need to reword the Finnish part of this groundrule to allow the Finnish troops to move as far south and participate in attacks on Petrozavodsk. Also to allow them to move adjacent to Leningrad from the north but to forbid them to participate in any attack on Leningrad or to allow any axis units to attack Leningrad from this hex.

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      Post by rkr1958 » Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:37 pm

      Turn 34. June 22, 1941 Axis.

      Reference: http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/op ... arossa.htm

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      The attack started at 03.00, Sunday morning June 22nd 1941. In total the Germans and her allies used 3 million soldiers, 3580 tanks, 7184 artillery guns, 1830 planes and 750,000 horses.
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      rkr1958
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      Post by rkr1958 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:16 pm

      FAST FORWARD -> Turn 41. November 29, 1941 Axis. A Severe Winter Grips Most of the Soviet Union.

      Reference: http://www.onwar.com/maps/wwii/eastfront1/typhoon.htm

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      German armed forces regrouped in September, after the destruction of Soviet military forces around Kiev, with the intention of launching a final offensive against Moscow (Operation Typhoon) before winter. The attack began with promise but the autumn rains made it impossible to continue the operation until the winter frost arrived. By this time, German military units were exhausted and the Soviet defenders were demonstrating increasing resistance
      Though I knew my lines were stretched and the severe winter could strike at any time I got fair weather last turn (Nov 9) and decided to take advantage of it to got after Bryansk, Dnepropetrovsk, Orel and Kharkov. The axis conquered Bryansk and Dnepropetrovsk and reduced Orel and Kharkov such that they could be captured this turn even with severe winter.

      The Russians have taken heavy losses and, unless he totally takes me by surprise, are in no position to mount much of a couterattack this winter. The UK still continues to lose convoys and PP's from air attacks. Also, German u-boats are now going after the Murmansk convoy further complicating the situation for the Allied AI in Russia.

      All is going well and is set for a total conquest of Russia except for one thing and that's oil. All this action has run the axis oil stockpiles down to critical levels. It's something that will need watching. For now all offensive operations have been shut down in Russia. Oil consuming units will only move by rail unless that's an important need for them to move normally.

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      Post by rkr1958 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:11 pm

      Turn 43. December 19, 1941 Axis.

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      Post by rkr1958 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:58 am

      Turn 47. March 29, 1941 Axis. Russian Spring Offensive Close. Oil is still Low.

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      Post by rkr1958 » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:29 pm

      May 1942. Shake Up at OKW!

      The appearance of invasion transports off the coast of France and the push back that I'm getting from the AI against Army Groups North and Center have forced me to step back and strategically take the AI more seriously. Tactically the AI does stupid things; but a lot of this is countered or minimized by the ground rules under which I'm playing. For example, I could have used my subs to destroy the RN and allied transports. The allied AI would continue to send transports to their death from the rest of the game. I've used this strategy against the AI before to keep the AI from landing until 1945 at best (for the AI). Below is my analysis and assessment of my current situation. The last thing I want is to have the AI hand me my butt. Anything less than an ultimate victory is what I would consider a loss. In fact, my goal is total victory against Russia. It's almost embarrassing to having to admit and post on my current situation. But hey, this is definitely fun. Isn't it! :D :D

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      Ground Rules wrote:1. I will only invaded those countries in GS that were historically invaded by the axis and on the date that they were invaded. For historical dates that don’t fall on a game turn, which most of them won’t, then the invasion will be on the last game turn before that date. Also, for countries initially invaded by Italy (i.e., Greece and Egypt) Germany will not intervene no sooner than they did historically. It’ll be interesting to compare my conquest results against the historical conquest dates. In fact I will grade myself using the color scheme below.

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      2. Greece. The invasion of Greece will be carried out by the Italians on the October 25, 1940 game turn. The Italian fighter, tactical bomber and armor corps will be commitment in Greece until its conquest. The German cannot intervene in Greece by land or air until the April 3, 1941 game turn.
      3. North Africa. The Italians will invade Egypt on August 26, 1940 or one turn after Egypt activates if later. The DAK (i.e., Africa Corps) will consist of a German armor unit led by Rommel will arrive no earlier than the February 2, 1941 game turn. Historically, the DAK began arriving in North Africa starting on February 10, 1941 with Rommel arriving on February 14, 1941 and taking command at that time. The Germans will also commit one fighter unit to North Africa. The total axis air strength in North Africa will not exceed two air units.
      4. (German) Axis Minors. Hungarian, Romania, Bulgarian and Finnish units will not be used for anti-partisan (i.e., counter resistance) operations in France or garrison of French cities. Axis minors, which can always be used within the own country as necessary; will be used outside their home country as follows. Bulgarian units can be used in Yugoslavia and Greece after these countries are conquered. Hungarian units can be used in Yugoslavia, including support of the invasion, and later can be used in southern Russia only. Romanian units will only be used in southern Russia (i.e., outside of Romanian). No axis unit (including German) can attack Leningrad from the Finnish hex north of the city. Finnish units cannot be transported, can only move and attack units in hex row 6 and below. Also, Finnish units cannot move and attack beyond hex column 117. Note that the city Petrozavodsk is well within the area of allowed Finnish movement and combat.
      5. German u-boats can only be used offensively to attack allied convoys. They CANNOT be used to attack the RN or allied transport. The only “attacks” of this sort allowed is when allied units of these types run into hidden subs.
      6. German u-boats CANNOT take up position in or block access to the English Channel.
      7. I will have 6 German u-boat flotillas (i.e., 3 more built ones) by the time Russia is invaded.
      8. Axis air units can be used to attack the RN. However; axis fighters cannot attack allied air units at their airbases.
      9. The Italians cannot build additional air or naval units, including sub groups, but can repair as necessary the ones they start with.
      10. Italian units can only be deployed to and fight in Italy, North Africa, Greece, Yugoslavia, southern Russia and southern France (hex row 35 or greater). Italian air and land units cannot more into or attack any units located inside of France until Paris is captured.
      11. German and Italian transport and invasion capacities can never be exceeded.

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      Post by rkr1958 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:07 am

      Turn 51. May 28, 1942 Axis.

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