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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:02 am
by zechi
In another AAR this strategy was already tried as you can see here. In this game it was a big failure for the Axis. Will be interesting to see how this plays out in this game.

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:53 am
by OxfordGuy3
Crazygunner1 wrote:As some of you already had guessed my aim is to increase supply in Africa, Sfax is only worth 2 but Tunis is worth 10 extra supply. (
I didn't know Tunis was worth 10 extra supply, I'm pretty sure this isn't mentioned the manual, was this done in one of the updates since the GS manual was updated for 1.04? Thankis

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:42 am
by Crazygunner1
London is heavily bombed and down to 5 PPs in production 2-3 more turn and it should be 0. Together with convoy raiding it should keep the brittish economy very weak and she won´t have the strenght to repair or answer to my operations in the Med.
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I have now 6 submarines in operation to hunt in the atlantic together with Graf Spee and DD Karlsruhe, if i can destroy a couple RN ships i should a significant advantage with the Italian Fleet when the US enters the war. That means they have to build a lot of new ships and then retake the atlantic first. Nice :lol:
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Tunis should fall next turn. RN appeared in the map to the east. He is either trying to increse protection around Malta or want to meet his fighter transport. I have set a trap for the fighter if he wants to escape. If he tries to interfere i have good cover from the air. Naother Italian sub in the mill, should be ready in 2 turns. Aditional forces on the way to be transprted to Libya.
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:45 am
by Crazygunner1
zechi wrote:In another AAR this strategy was already tried as you can see here. In this game it was a big failure for the Axis. Will be interesting to see how this plays out in this game.
Well hopefully things won´t go as bad as that, i mean it was end of 41 and he hadn´t even captured Egypt. I plan to have taken Persia at that time before i declare war on Russia.

Crazyg

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:03 am
by Crazygunner1
Erwinn Johannes Eugen Rommel forming the africa korps to deal with the Britts in Egypt
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Carefull planning and transports across the Med has started
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All equipment is custom made to coap with the harsh terrain and camouflage of the desert
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:08 pm
by Crazygunner1
The way i see my turn first priority to capture Tunis and then destroy 1 RN ship if possible.
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I will set sail with Graf Spee to sink brittish BB, if i count correctly and RN CV is out of range, i will only get damaged if he tries to retaliate.
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Fantastic results, 2 Luftwaffe bomber performed better than i suspected and together with Italian inf attack and tank Tunis was taken. I then focused my attention on the RN CV. Sub moved in to attack and then Italian fighter, followed swiftly by 2 BB. Mission accomplished CV sunk, i didn´t even use my DD. The sub came as a surprize though, thought it would be well out of range....If he continues to fight here i think we will see the destruction of the entire RN in the Med.
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I let the northern convoy go(only 11pps) to concentrate my forces more south. RN BB destroyed as predicted and London bombed down to 2-3 steps of PP....slowly i am gaining the upperhand on all fronts so far.
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:22 pm
by Peter Stauffenberg
Problem is that all of France being part if Vichy France (southern France, Corsica, Northern Africa and Syria) will turn to neutral Vichy France once Paris falls. All Axis units in these territories will be sent to the production pool.

So capturing these territories now will just be in vain when Paris falls. The Allied player can continue to produce French units and place them in Paris to attack Axis units there. They can even build an armor unit so the German units near Paris will get lot of step damage.

I can't see why keeping France alive will actually help the Axis. The only situation I can see is if the Allies later want to enter Vichy France then they Germans can take Paris and send the Allied units to the production pool. But this can be dealt with by bypassing Vichy France.

If you attack in northern Africa to get Tunis then you could just as easily have taken Paris, create Vichy France and then invade northern Africa before the Allies can respond. Then you get the supply you need for an invasion of Egypt.

So it will be interesting to see the end result of keeping Paris alive like this.

One way to deal with this in GS v2.00 is to add code that Vichy France will not be created if France is alive after a certain date (01.01.1941 or something like that). That means all French units will turn into Free French units once Paris finally falls. This means the French naval units and all garrisons in north Africa / Syria will become Free French. The Allies can then land into this territory without having to make an invasion. So the Axis will have to land here first to prevent an Allied landing.

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:29 pm
by Peter Stauffenberg
Another way to deal with this is to force a French surrender, thus creating Vichy France, once Paris is empty. This means the Allies player can by himself attack adjacent German units to kill the Paris unit if the Germans don't seem interested in taking Paris. This way the Allied player can disrupt the plans of using France instead of Vichy France to land in north Africa to boost an invasion of Britain.

It's not logical that the French would remain at war with the Germans controlling all of France and no French defender in Paris. The French would have surrendered in such a situation.

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:56 pm
by ncali
Stauffenberg wrote:One way to deal with this in GS v2.00 is to add code that Vichy France will not be created if France is alive after a certain date (01.01.1941 or something like that). That means all French units will turn into Free French units once Paris finally falls. This means the French naval units and all garrisons in north Africa / Syria will become Free French. The Allies can then land into this territory without having to make an invasion. So the Axis will have to land here first to prevent an Allied landing.
I kind of like this idea as it would basically give the Germans the choice of whether to allow Vichy France to be created or not. It may cause the French to think twice about pulling all the garrisons out of North Africa.
But another possibility to give a similar choice would be to make it so that Vichy France is not created if the Axis controls Marseilles when Paris falls.

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:37 pm
by Rhialto
ncali wrote:
Stauffenberg wrote:One way to deal with this in GS v2.00 is to add code that Vichy France will not be created if France is alive after a certain date (01.01.1941 or something like that). That means all French units will turn into Free French units once Paris finally falls. This means the French naval units and all garrisons in north Africa / Syria will become Free French. The Allies can then land into this territory without having to make an invasion. So the Axis will have to land here first to prevent an Allied landing.
I agree. I never really liked the compulsory creation of Vichy France on the fall of Paris, or the 'teleporting' of axis units in Vichy territory back to the production pool (ie. to Germany). This artificial constraint is why this 'gamy' tactic of not taking Paris is being tried here. Some games of this type will offer the axis player capturing Paris a choice of compelling complete surrender of France (downsides; need for garrisons, maybe increased partisan activity, activation of Free France, upside; production from Marseilles etc and access to the Mediterranean) or allowing the creation of Vichy France. Is it possible using the existing code to specify that Vichy France will not be created on the fall of Paris if more than a certain number of French cities are are in German hands? The number could be picked to compel the Axis to capture most of Vichy France.

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:53 pm
by Peter Stauffenberg
This will now be changed in GS v2.0. This is what we intend to do.

1. If Paris is empty after June 27th 1940 then France will surrender. So the Allied player can just attack from Paris to force a situation where it's not possible to keep France alive with not units.

2. When France surrenders the Axis player will get a choice. The French will offer an armistice. If you accept the offer then Vichy France is created normally. If you reject the offer then all French units on the map will become UK units flagged as Free French. All French controlled hexes will become Free French and Free French garrisons will spawn in all cities in North Africa under Free French control (hexes already controlled by Italy will NOT change side). The Free French BB, armor, mech and 2 corps will spawn in Agadir in November 1942 if Agadir is Allied controlled. No need to DoW Vichy France because Vichy was never created.

If Germany goes for conquest instead of Vichy then they can get production for southern France as soon as they move into the cities and they have a broad front line vs Spain if they intend to go after Gibraltar. But they will have some French units still alive in France that must be destroyed the hard way (like partisans) and the French air force and naval units might evacuate to Britain or the Med. Rear French units might get to a port and evacuate to Britain too.

The point is to give the Germans a choice. If the Allied player wastes the French units then going for conquest is a good option because few units will be evacuated and you get extra production from southern France. If the French player makes sure the figher and naval units can evacuate then it might be hard to not accept the armistice offer. Having choices in a game is never bad. :)

3. We're still debating if we would let Vichy France automatically join the Axis in 1943 so the Allies better launch Torch before that time or risk having German units enter Morocco, Algeria etc. prior to a landing there.

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:00 pm
by Rhialto
Sounds good. This proposal also makes it sound as if it would be worth the Axis making quite an effort to capture Agadir following a rejection of an armistice.

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:19 pm
by trulster
Good changes, great to have a choice in this matter!

IMO, Vichy should not autojoin the Axis in 43, that would be akin to forcing the Allies to DoW it. If Vichy exists I think current situation is ok, there are advantages and disadvantages to DoWing them.

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:56 pm
by ncali
trulster wrote:IMO, Vichy should not autojoin the Axis in 43, that would be akin to forcing the Allies to DoW it. If Vichy exists I think current situation is ok, there are advantages and disadvantages to DoWing them.
I agree.

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:44 am
by OxfordGuy3
trulster wrote:Good changes, great to have a choice in this matter!

IMO, Vichy should not autojoin the Axis in 43, that would be akin to forcing the Allies to DoW it. If Vichy exists I think current situation is ok, there are advantages and disadvantages to DoWing them.
I agree on both counts - great to have the option of creating Vichy or not, but also don't like the idea of Vichy auto-joining the Axis in '43

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:02 pm
by Rhialto
Stauffenberg wrote: 2. When France surrenders the Axis player will get a choice. The French will offer an armistice. If you accept the offer then Vichy France is created normally. If you reject the offer then all French units on the map will become UK units flagged as Free French.
This sounds as if the axis player will get a pop-up window with text followed by two options to select from (radio buttons) and depending on the selection units will be created/reflagged/moved and cities change hands. I can't think of another such if/or choice in CEAW, and didn't realize you could do this.


Question: is it possible that you might consider expanding this approach in future updates to other historical turning points?

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:02 pm
by Crazygunner1
Well if you guys don´t mind i will continue with my AAr
Declared war on Denmark this turn, small operation, 1 mech 1 inf and a bomber. Most vital transports are across the Med and in africa so the Luftwaffe and italian airforce will move over to prepare the offensive towards Egypt
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There is only 1 RN sub left in the Med now, Egypt joined so there might appear a brittish BB i hope, then i can sink it easy. I will refit and supply the Regina Marina and start bombarding the troops in Egypt, valuable experience gain for the patrols in the atlantic. Placed italian sub this turn, going to start building more BB soon. Now i just need to make haste for the Irak and Persian oil.
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Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:18 pm
by Crazygunner1
The pride of Regina Marina, Vittorio Veneto class BB has performed pretty well despite their poor radar and training vs the RN. In the light of this disadvantage vs RN the italian high command has anounced tactical trainings for high rankning sailors and also issued that Regin Marina will be operational in the atlantic vs the convoys to gain valuable experience. They aim to close the gap in 1942 and gain an edge vs any allied surface fleet in 43-44.
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Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:14 pm
by Crazygunner1
Not much happening elsewhere, RN on the move in the atlantic and Corp reinforcements sent to Middle east. We might have a showdown before the year is over.
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Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:35 pm
by Crazygunner1
Counter attack by the 8th army in Egypt, one italian corp destroyed. At first glance his tank seems somewhat exposed and might be encircled. He has only one fighter to worrie about also witch means i will have total air superiority.
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After my turn, moved up the rest of the Luftwaffe and i was able to put the brittish tank in a bad position. This battle should be over in a couple of turns and after that, "race for for the black gold"
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In the atlantic things are different, RN is contesting my domination at sea.
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Graff spee who has sunk 2 BB already knows she is hopelessly outnumber by the RN but nontheless sails towards what might be her final voyage. Her loss will not be in vain though. If the RN BBs goes after her they probably will loose the CV and another BB. So it will be a good exchange. Graf Spee also has a lot of experience and higher organisation so she might perform well in defending herself.
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