AAR: Supermax Vs Moriss (No moriss please)

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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Peter Stauffenberg
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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:34 pm

One thing to remember is that the UK morale loss due to insufficient HG forces does NOT apply if there are Axis forces in Britain.

I feel that Morris has maybe started something that he has lost control over. UK are crippling themselves at France can still fall before Fall 1940.

Supermax still has time to get Barbarossa going in 1941 despite having to pay a lot for repairs etc.

The 30 efficiency loss of the Russian units is to good to give up so starting Barbarossa in July or August is better than 1942 in my opinion.

I think Morris is a bit nervous at the moment. His strategy is based upon normal players and not against players as aggressive as him. It's hard to tell how this will go.

supermax
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Post by supermax » Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:18 pm

Stauffenberg wrote:One thing to remember is that the UK morale loss due to insufficient HG forces does NOT apply if there are Axis forces in Britain.

I feel that Morris has maybe started something that he has lost control over. UK are crippling themselves at France can still fall before Fall 1940.

Supermax still has time to get Barbarossa going in 1941 despite having to pay a lot for repairs etc.

The 30 efficiency loss of the Russian units is to good to give up so starting Barbarossa in July or August is better than 1942 in my opinion.

I think Morris is a bit nervous at the moment. His strategy is based upon normal players and not against players as aggressive as him. It's hard to tell how this will go.
Yes, i think he was hoping for a less agressive stance... But honeslty Borger, i like the russian option, but if you want my opinion, this game is interesting. The North American outlook is looking even better in this game than it did in my game with PAnzer General... Only the rules have changed so i would have to be a little bit more creative.

Could i think it possible to forego of the russian in 1941 and go for an all-out american operaiton with an all-out surprise landing? The way he is spending british ressources right now, the whole world is possible...

What do you think? If i do that and miss, then its a sure loss... But if i can pull it off... Even Spanish activation is possible and feasible right now.

supermax
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Operation Sealion a success! Beachead around Norwhich!

Post by supermax » Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:20 pm

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supermax
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Post by supermax » Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:23 pm

Question for all:

When does the Italians activate???

I would need the troops and the Amphimb capacity RIGHT NOW!!!

Delegations have been sent to Mussolini to ask him for support. Lets hope the Italian dictator comes true!

Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:48 pm

supermax wrote:Question for all:

When does the Italians activate???

I would need the troops and the Amphimb capacity RIGHT NOW!!!

Delegations have been sent to Mussolini to ask him for support. Lets hope the Italian dictator comes true!
June 1940 I believe.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:01 pm

If you can defeat the RN then I think sending transports to USA and land them in a surprise attack near New York and Washington could really cripple the Allies. It would be nice to have air support there and getting a CV takes 15 turns.

Still, it's a very risky operation and it all depends on how hard you manage to crush the British. All convoys will turn to Halifax once you take England so your subs will have a lot of work to do. Quebec is a city not so far from Ottawa so if you could land a unit in Quebec then you could
cut the link between Halifax and Ottawa.

I'm not creative enough to figure out a plan to take Canada and USA, but if anyone can do it then you're the person. :)

Since Russia can't activate until 1942 if you leave them alone it means you have time to knock USA and UK out of the war. Then you can focus on building fortress Europe in the east. I can't imagine how the Russians can get through to Berlin even if they start from Eastern Poland if you only have 1 front to worry about. The Kriegsmarine can get back to the Baltic Sea to prevent Russian amphibious landings etc.

Knocking out USA won't be easy and you need to get many units ashore fast. It will cost lots of PP's in amph overuse to pull that off. If you could bump your surface ships and industry techs then you can increase your transport and amph capacities.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:03 pm

Italy can activate early if the Allies fail to have enough naval units in the Med. So I expect the French still have 1 BB, 1 DD and 1 sub in the Med. These units will probably sail to the Atlantic once Italy joins anyway. They join in June +/- 1 turn.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:11 pm

I guess you focus on damaging the British/French air units. They're very far down now and can't be repaired without losing all capability to repair land units. Once these units are destroyed then the left flank in France will crumble since the second line is held by the air units.

So Morris is going for broke here. He can end up without a UK airforce. I don't understand he has the guts to defend the way he does. You can afford to not bother with Norway/Denmark and Yugoslavia/Greece prior to Barbarossa. As soon as France falls then Germany will be back to full strength quickly. So I fail to see the long term benefit for Morris. If he had managed to destroy several German units like in the game against Plaid, THEN I see some compensation, but here it seems the only compensation he has is that Germany gets a big repair bill when the smoke has settled. The cost was the loss of England.

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Post by Plaid » Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:28 pm

I believe point is that he (think that :) ) don't need England. He dont build labs, so this troops will be complete useless after some time will pass (but he build leaders to get minor stats increase).

So he use them same way, like people use french - suicide missions to score some damage. And Morris believe that inflicting some damage in 1940 is enough to win with the soviets and USA.

Actually main impact of Sealion is that it REDUCES UK PP income significant. For germans it adds only like 10 PPs per turn, so it will take couple of years only to pay back for invasion transports, landings, casualties and garrison forces.
But if Morris believe that he dont need UK PP at all, this trade starts to look good for allies in his system of things.

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Post by Crazygunner1 » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:41 pm

First i got 2 general question if anyone know this: When a fighter flies a mission and get´s intercepted 2 battles occur. Do the fighter use the same amount of oil anyway? Is there some kind of surprize penalty when fighters get intercepted if they fly a ground attack mission. I tend to find that fighters get better results when the are only intercepting.

Second: Earning around 140pps with the germans at the end of 1940 beginning of 41 is that a good figure? Hard to say now with the 2.0 mod

Morris might turn to some kind of gerilla defense up in northern England. That is the only way i see he can keep a part of the brittish isles. Smoking them out will take a while for Max and that might delay other operations.

Economic prize of brittain for Germany isn´t that great, but it is more the strategic value. Germany rarely get strat bombed until later in the game and that saves up a lot of time and PPs. I think Max is doing the right thing here no matter if he needs to grind it out in France until end of 40.

Actually i would consider sending troops to africa as well to get spain to join the war, freeing up the Italian navy and maybe do the race to Egypt and Irak as well. Barbarossa will suffer, sure but go for a later start in July or even August. Also if he takes Irak he has got a good postition on Persia to take out the 15pps of land lease to Russia for the rest of the game. That is pretty hard even for the Russians.

If you spread out enough he will never be able to push you back in time before 45

Crazyg

supermax
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Post by supermax » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:14 am

Stauffenberg wrote:If you can defeat the RN then I think sending transports to USA and land them in a surprise attack near New York and Washington could really cripple the Allies. It would be nice to have air support there and getting a CV takes 15 turns.

Still, it's a very risky operation and it all depends on how hard you manage to crush the British. All convoys will turn to Halifax once you take England so your subs will have a lot of work to do. Quebec is a city not so far from Ottawa so if you could land a unit in Quebec then you could
cut the link between Halifax and Ottawa.

I'm not creative enough to figure out a plan to take Canada and USA, but if anyone can do it then you're the person. :)

Since Russia can't activate until 1942 if you leave them alone it means you have time to knock USA and UK out of the war. Then you can focus on building fortress Europe in the east. I can't imagine how the Russians can get through to Berlin even if they start from Eastern Poland if you only have 1 front to worry about. The Kriegsmarine can get back to the Baltic Sea to prevent Russian amphibious landings etc.

Knocking out USA won't be easy and you need to get many units ashore fast. It will cost lots of PP's in amph overuse to pull that off. If you could bump your surface ships and industry techs then you can increase your transport and amph capacities.

Maybee i need to keep it simpler...

IF i can activate Spain (by the looks of things it might be possible), then i have a very good base of operation for a follow-up attack on the USA.

By this i mean that i wait for the 1942 US attack in france or England. While most of his ships and troops are occupied there i send a solid force (not too big, but enough) to land in the USA... This would be a severe drawback to the US war effort and also the 1942 offensive.

That is safer than risking it all in one stroke... If i can get Spain to activate, i will try this.
Last edited by supermax on Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

supermax
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Post by supermax » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:16 am

Stauffenberg wrote:I guess you focus on damaging the British/French air units. They're very far down now and can't be repaired without losing all capability to repair land units. Once these units are destroyed then the left flank in France will crumble since the second line is held by the air units.

So Morris is going for broke here. He can end up without a UK airforce. I don't understand he has the guts to defend the way he does. You can afford to not bother with Norway/Denmark and Yugoslavia/Greece prior to Barbarossa. As soon as France falls then Germany will be back to full strength quickly. So I fail to see the long term benefit for Morris. If he had managed to destroy several German units like in the game against Plaid, THEN I see some compensation, but here it seems the only compensation he has is that Germany gets a big repair bill when the smoke has settled. The cost was the loss of England.
I think your assesment is right Borger. Simply put, i think he intends to consume the whole Uk forces in France. Makes sense i guess... But that will give me good opportunity.

So, from what i read in the manual, if say the Italians manage to occupy Marseille, Tunis and Oran for example, i leep them if there is an armistice or a surrender?

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Post by supermax » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:18 am

Plaid wrote:I believe point is that he (think that :) ) don't need England. He dont build labs, so this troops will be complete useless after some time will pass (but he build leaders to get minor stats increase).

So he use them same way, like people use french - suicide missions to score some damage. And Morris believe that inflicting some damage in 1940 is enough to win with the soviets and USA.

Actually main impact of Sealion is that it REDUCES UK PP income significant. For germans it adds only like 10 PPs per turn, so it will take couple of years only to pay back for invasion transports, landings, casualties and garrison forces.
But if Morris believe that he dont need UK PP at all, this trade starts to look good for allies in his system of things.
I dont see the logic. I have never been able to do a good game with allies wihtout the British. They are a significant part of the western war effort...

supermax
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Post by supermax » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:22 am

We'll see about his Guerilla operation in England. Actually i dont really care if i occupy the whole place, dont see the importance, especially since i can freely land in Scapa Flow, removing that port for any future supply sources.

As to spread it out as much as i can, this is exactly what Moriss wants. I will not do it. I agree with you that trying to activate Spain is a good idea and i will attempts it, but once i am done with that part the West will be quiet till 1942. I shall have an interesting, if not super strong, Barbarossa.

Maybee next game, when Moriss changes his play style... I would hav liked to see a Barbarossa operation like the germans really can do.

Crazygunner1
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Post by Crazygunner1 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:10 am

supermax wrote:We'll see about his Guerilla operation in England. Actually i dont really care if i occupy the whole place, dont see the importance, especially since i can freely land in Scapa Flow, removing that port for any future supply sources.

As to spread it out as much as i can, this is exactly what Moriss wants. I will not do it. I agree with you that trying to activate Spain is a good idea and i will attempts it, but once i am done with that part the West will be quiet till 1942. I shall have an interesting, if not super strong, Barbarossa.

Maybee next game, when Moriss changes his play style... I would hav liked to see a Barbarossa operation like the germans really can do.
So you are going for Barbarossa in 42, if the americans attack you send your forces past his to take out US? That is bold, you think you will have units and oil for all that?

Crazyg

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Post by Rhialto » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:54 am

Crazygunner1 wrote: So you are going for Barbarossa in 42, if the americans attack you send your forces past his to take out US? That is bold, you think you will have units and oil for all that?

Crazyg

No I *think* Max meant he hopes to finish with UK and France in 1940, shift forces to Barbarossa in 1941 and somehow also get Spain meantime. Then if the USA commits to attacking Britan or France in 1942 at that time use Spain as launching point for a punitive expedition on the US mainland. Barbarossa needs to be done in 1941 rather than 1942 for maximum effect.

supermax
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Turn 13: London falls!!!

Post by supermax » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:19 pm

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Turn 14: German Yellow-Sealion continues!

Post by supermax » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:24 pm

The german offensive relentlessly continues its course. This turn we cut England in 2 and destroy most of the french offensive power.

Looking at this guys, i fail to see the good thing in Moriss strategy... Well it might have been doable before, but after this AAR anyone looking at this wont fall again for the french bait...

Yes, once the dust settles he will have destroyed 5 INF corps and made me spend money on repairs and a landing, but i will occupy England, and the whole of France as well.

Then, whats to stop me from taking over Denmark and Norway? I can even do that in 1940...!!! Yougoslavia is even also doable for christ sake. Spain will also be in the Axis fold if everything goes according to plan.

End result: The germans will have a huge PP revenue to buy stuff... This means HQ and air aplenty...

Well, that is my analysis of the situation, but i might be wrong... I really believe i can make a solid Barbarossa happen...

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Blathergut
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Post by Blathergut » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:27 pm

You've done successfully what I failed horribly at: invade England from the Dutch ports while you invade France. Nice to see it done correctly!! :oops:

supermax
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Post by supermax » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:29 pm

Blathergut wrote:You've done successfully what I failed horribly at: invade England from the Dutch ports while you invade France. Nice to see it done correctly!! :oops:
Well, agaisnt Moriss it really wasnt hard... He baited me into doing it...

Although he admitted in his last email that he NEVER expected me to do it in march 1940.

Well, now ive got a clear path to an amazing game dont you think?

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