AAR: Supermax Vs Moriss (No moriss please)

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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Crazygunner1
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Post by Crazygunner1 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:53 am

I think you are on the right track Max, if you can get a deciding battle of 41 on the eastern front you should take it. My guess is, since Morris is an aggressive player he will go for winter offensive in 41, that is actually a great chance for you to avoid him atleast the 3 first turns during severe winter and then try to catch him with his tanks on the open field when the weather turns fair again. You bombers then should have any problem to deal a crippling blow to his offensive capabilities.

Crazyg

supermax
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Post by supermax » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:22 am

Crazygunner1 wrote:I think you are on the right track Max, if you can get a deciding battle of 41 on the eastern front you should take it. My guess is, since Morris is an aggressive player he will go for winter offensive in 41, that is actually a great chance for you to avoid him atleast the 3 first turns during severe winter and then try to catch him with his tanks on the open field when the weather turns fair again. You bombers then should have any problem to deal a crippling blow to his offensive capabilities.

Crazyg
I am also thinking of keeping a reserve of units in Germany (say 4 INF, 2 tanks maybee?) to rail the first turn after SW hits. They will be high-effectiveness and will be able to stem any localised russian offensive.

I am thinking that Moriss will use the passive defense against me. IF he does, well thats exactly what i'll do. If he doesnt, well thats good itll mean i'll bring my force to bear to obliterate the Russian army on the field like in our game together.

But overall, i agree with your thinking of trying to avoid Moriss in the first few turns of SW. If i guess right, he will start advancing his units first turn of november when he knows i wont have any clear weather turns anymore. So i retreat first turn of november or last turn of october.

I also noted that the best defensive option on the first SW winter is to have localised strong point around cities, and let them be oblitarated while the main body of your army escape or gets his effectiveness upward.

richardsd
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Post by richardsd » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:57 am

not that I am in the category of the top players, but I have to say my favourite tactic in dealing with Russia is to just 'kill' them, eventually they aren't a threat to Berlin, of course I hardly ever get to instigate it as I am always invading Britain!

Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:30 am

Under current rules units, which were not hit by SW, will still suffer effectiveness loss after entering SW hex.
So its no use to rail them from germany in attempt to avoid loss.

zechi
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Post by zechi » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:54 am

Concerning your low oil level, you should really be careful, because as soon as you invade the Soviet Union you will lose the Caucasian oil source. Perhaps it would be better to go for a Barbarossa in spring 1942? You will have much more oil and you will be under no time pressure and you can focus to take Casablanca for out. You could even push to Port Said and close the Med and perhaps even into the Middle East.

Crazygunner1
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Post by Crazygunner1 » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:03 am

zechi wrote:Concerning your low oil level, you should really be careful, because as soon as you invade the Soviet Union you will lose the Caucasian oil source. Perhaps it would be better to go for a Barbarossa in spring 1942? You will have much more oil and you will be under no time pressure and you can focus to take Casablanca for out. You could even push to Port Said and close the Med and perhaps even into the Middle East.
Think Max preparations has gone to far now to undo. I suggested this before, but Max wants to do Barbarossa 41 and to be honest i agree. If he let´s the allies rest a year they will catch up. He just need to be careful in planning and timing.

supermax
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Post by supermax » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:53 am

Guys, strategically what you are proposing is to let Moriss get his way...

We all know his strategy, that is win with Russia and bleed the germans with the western allies...

The fuss about oil i dont understand. I will be close ot 600 for the start of barbarossa... If that isnt enough i wonder what is.

I need to kick the russians in the gut in 1941 to have a chance on the long run. 42 and onward i have plans for the western allies. It might not become reality, but hey, as long as the British and riff raff allies are in MAroc , Algeria and Tunisia, Italy is quite safe wouldnt you say?

I am building up my Regina Marina (1 BB will be build next turn). By the time the Allies get to land in Italy, well they will need all there naval strenght.

If i do get aroind to take Casablanca, well then it'll be sweet to see those in the Atlantic to face the Americans.

richardsd
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Post by richardsd » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:10 pm

I think there are two choices with Barbarossa, go standard in 41 as you are now, or wait for 42 if you take Persia
you have two fronts against the Russians in 42 and can have a marked tech advantage in ARM

I don;t know which is best?

PionUrpo
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Post by PionUrpo » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:33 pm

The fact that there's even a chance for a decent '41 Barbarossa after Sealion and taking a fair piece of Algeria goes a long way to point out the uniqueness of this particular duel. In a good way of course :)

Rhialto
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Post by Rhialto » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:16 pm

richardsd wrote:I think there are two choices with Barbarossa, go standard in 41 as you are now, or wait for 42 if you take Persia
you have two fronts against the Russians in 42 and can have a marked tech advantage in ARM

I don;t know which is best?
The arguments I usually read against Persia is that it takes quite a while to land in Palestine and trek across to the oil fields. Since this expends some oil, diverts forces needed in Russia, and no oil is yielded until arrival, the gains are long-term since the oil fields must be held for production. Also I think the Soviets can be activated by an invasion of Persia? This means that Persia needs to be timed to coincide with rather than before Barbarossa, otherwise the Axis lose the Russian efficiency reductions that accompany the Axis DOW.

I think Max is doing the right thing by going in in '41, since delaying a year will fritter away his gains; remember that even with his PP gains, the Allies probably still have more potential PP during the course of the game than the Axis. Max needs to cut into Soviet PP quickly before the USA enters the war and PP starts to ramp up. The tech advantage that the Axis have now will not improve. Also, hi-tech armor and aircraft that both sides will be using in '42 will consume a lot more oil than in '41. The soviets can afford a high tech tank battle more than Max can.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:27 pm

Also remember that if you enter Iraq as the Axis then USSR will cancel the Baku oil agreement. So you lose as much oil prior to Barbarossa as you gain from Iraq. You need to get the oil from Persia too to get ahead. Problem is that if you invade Persia then USSR will activate.

richardsd
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Post by richardsd » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:25 pm

You take Iraq - which doesn't activate Persia, then invade Persia when you invade Russia

The Russian's can do nothing to stop this really, they don't have enough time or 'space' to get a sizable force in place

If the Russian's go all out to save Persia, the Axis can make progress in the North

This strategy also allows Italy to focus on subs which really inhibits the US and UK

supermax
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Post by supermax » Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:04 am

Lets be realistic here.

Moriss is playing with extremes only. By this i mean that you cannot think in normal terms playing against him...

He focuses on 2 or 3 things only. Mainly, right now he focuses on:

1- Bleeding the germans with britain
2- Ramp up Russian production and build tanks with high-level tech along with mech to have a real offensive power. He will advance his troops first turn of november or last turn of october more likely
3- US landing in France to divert even more germans from the already overwhelming Russians.

So, against this there is a simple strategy. Occupy FRance, Britain and try to activate Spain, but all in 1940. If you dont do that, you loose the game. Turn around, organize a big Barbarossa, and punch the Russians in the Face. Comes 42, face the Western Allies invasion while staving off Russians that hopefully got enough of a licking in 41.

Survive the rest of the war. So lets not divert into alternative front and strategies, this would only render the germans weaker in Russia and when needed in France.

Its all about over-extending the Axis... So i am not playing his game, but i am making him stick to MY agenda. Proof of that is that he is building up big time in MAroc... I prefer him doing that than trying a 41 landing in Italy.

supermax
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Turn 32: Barbarossa launched in may!

Post by supermax » Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:10 am

Well, this is it my friends. Barbarossa. this is where we will see if i can stem the morrissian tide. I intend to give him hell like hes never had before in any russian campaign. I want to bring him to battle. Give him no choice but to come and slug it out in fair weather. If he doesnt, well i'll be all over his PP and his cities.

Some interesting secondary fronts as well. The Italians, while 100% occupied in the MED, are in a good strategic position for the moment. Battling it out, but far from Italy and not entirely on the defensive. I intend to keep building up their navy. The allies will, at one point, need a major investment to take them out. I'll have to watch for a surprise landing from the East, but most troops are now in Maroc.

The big wildcard will be the US-british forces in North America. I have my plan, but will i be able to implement it before they bring their numerous forces to bear on me? That remains to be seen.

At the end of my turn, oil stands at 436, manpower 82%, again not bad if i look at most of my normal games.


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Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:16 am

Wow, many armour you have!

It will be a bit sad, if you forced to take cities with tanks, scratching this precious units, but seems like you have little choice.

richardsd
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Post by richardsd » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:23 am

I don't think cities are their targets :twisted:

I would expect rapid encirclement advances with the mop up following

supermax
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Post by supermax » Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:16 pm

Run little bird, run...

I am busy conquering Russia.

I think Moriss is doing a major blunder by letting me do what i want to do in Russia. Doesnt he realize that he is not playing against a passive/"playing safe" axis player? Well, i guess we will see who'S right soon.

The way i see this, if he does the passive playing i will be deep in Russia very fast. Sure he wont loose as much units, but its going to be the same in PP value isnt it? And then he might just be forced into making a stand in clear weather because he has to. Then i throw is agenda to the winds and i get my way and keep the initiative.

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trulster
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Post by trulster » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:17 pm

Looks like the Italians will be routed in the Magrehb, hopefully okay defences being prepped in Sicily?

Good going Barbarossa, but early days :o

supermax
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Post by supermax » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:03 pm

trulster wrote:Looks like the Italians will be routed in the Magrehb, hopefully okay defences being prepped in Sicily?

Good going Barbarossa, but early days :o
Not so sure about routing in the maghreb,,, British troops 3-4 quality. Also, some reinforcements on the way.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:06 pm

I guess you know that Russia will release their strategic reserve of 8 garrison units in their August 1941 turn. Those will be in the force pool so they can be placed in or adjacent to cities. So if you can grab cities before that turn then they have to be placed further east.

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