"Another one" - Plaid vs Morris

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

Moderators: rkr1958, Happycat, Slitherine Core

Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:25 am

Canadian MECH rest in their graves in central france for more then a year.

But Morris' MED troops have tons of leaders (with + stats) attached and massive naval support.

I will send mostly fighters from the east. They are not this useful in Barbarossa any more, since soviets partly recovered from morale loss and common result of fighter attack is one step of garrison killed + some effectiveness loss, while I lose valueable FTR step.

Also I almost completed my Barbarossa plans. In previous games I entered 3 supply zone "to kill some weak soviets", and it never ended good, even with full luftwaffe support. This time I will not go there, so only few cities left to capture.

Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:11 pm

I am not sure how this invasion to Sicily supposed to be not a problem. They landed in force, destroyed italian garrison and badly damaged corps unit. Only at cost of lutwaffe casualties we managed to throw them back a bit and restore link to Palermo supply network. Also we sunk UK invasion transport, which wanted to cut off Reggio and Sicily from the rest of Italy.

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Still I believe that redeploying of enough wehrmacht troops will mean succes in Sicilian campaign and we will eventually win here!

Barely we solved one problem, but another one appeared : thats old dirty blob production. This time UK fighters. Already 4 of them spotted in USSR and they cause trouble to our Crimean campaign.

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On the north there is no RAF airbases...for now. City of Leningrad succesfully blocked, though I am unsure, will we be able to capture the place.

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zechi
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Post by zechi » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:31 pm

As you will have several turns of fair weather you could be able to capture both Sevastopol and Leningrad. However, you will need two TACs air strikes each turn. From my point of view you should not advance further, but instead try to take both cities. This will also free the Finnish forces, which are quite useful in the winter.

Furthermore, it seem that the British invasion force in Sicily has been cut off from supply? I think that this early operation Husky will fail badly.

Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:37 pm

zechi wrote:
Furthermore, it seem that the British invasion force in Sicily has been cut off from supply? I think that this early operation Husky will fail badly.
Ah, really ! Didnt note it myself! I thought thats impossible to have no supply with so many RN roaming around, so didnt even check.

supermax
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Post by supermax » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:23 am

But where is the russian army???

If i were you i would be concerned about a major counter-attack at one point of the front...

Think south... This is where the brits fighters are... but how in hell did he manage to produce so much with the english? 4 FTR in Russia... LOL, how bad Churchill must feel right now...

I expect Moriss to jump on you with a ton of Tanks and Mechs. What is your opinion on this? I think you are right to advance slowly. I wont say that often because i am a proposent of Speed, but in this case...

On another subject, honestly i am not for limiting ways of playing(i in fact hate it), but i think that sending western forces in big numbers in russia is very lame... Like Stalin would have allowed it historically... Also, it is not at all certain that Churchill would have been able to convince his country of this. So whats next, british tanks 3 INF and GAR in Russia? LOL. Lame lame lame.

rkr1958
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Post by rkr1958 » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:49 am

supermax wrote:But where is the russian army???

If i were you i would be concerned about a major counter-attack at one point of the front...

Think south... This is where the brits fighters are... but how in hell did he manage to produce so much with the english? 4 FTR in Russia... LOL, how bad Churchill must feel right now...

I expect Moriss to jump on you with a ton of Tanks and Mechs. What is your opinion on this? I think you are right to advance slowly. I wont say that often because i am a proposent of Speed, but in this case...

On another subject, honestly i am not for limiting ways of playing(i in fact hate it), but i think that sending western forces in big numbers in russia is very lame... Like Stalin would have allowed it historically... Also, it is not at all certain that Churchill would have been able to convince his country of this. So whats next, british tanks 3 INF and GAR in Russia? LOL. Lame lame lame.
I agree. This is an exploit of historical realism. The last thing England wanted to do was to lose men in numbers that they lost during WW-I. Paul had an intriguing idea and that is any Western Allied (i.e., UK-USA-France) that is moved to a Russian core hex is considered to be a transfer of like material to the Soviet Union and redeemed at 30% of its strength. For example, a 10-step UK fighter unit that entered such a hex would be removed for the game and replaced by a 3-step Russian fighter unit in the force pool.

For goodness sake, the Russians interned for the duration of the war the two or three American air crews that landed in Russia from Doolittle's air raid on Japan in 1942.

supermax
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Post by supermax » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:25 am

Also ronnie, it is very obvious that a player like moriss could move ALL english units in russia...

Thinking about it, i deem it possible. Imagine transferring via sea all ground and air units to russia... While the americans attack in 1942

Most of the the time he would get away with it because most players dont do sealion even when prompted to do so by moriss...

rkr1958
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Post by rkr1958 » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:40 am

supermax wrote:Also ronnie, it is very obvious that a player like moriss could move ALL english units in russia...

Thinking about it, i deem it possible. Imagine transferring via sea all ground and air units to russia... While the americans attack in 1942

Most of the the time he would get away with it because most players dont do sealion even when prompted to do so by moriss...
Well I dare say there would have been a revolution in England then. Can you image the soldiers, sailors and airmen going to fight in Russia and leaving England completely defenseless! They would be leaving their wives, children, parents, etc. to the mercy of the Nazis!

Now that my rant is over ... :oops: ... what should be done, if anything, about this?

Rhialto
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Post by Rhialto » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:09 am

http://www.falconsquadron.sevenpennynig ... .uk/?p=104

I grew up with this comic... Johnny Red lives!

Rhialto
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Post by Rhialto » Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:54 am

rkr1958 wrote:
supermax wrote:Also ronnie, it is very obvious that a player like moriss could move ALL english units in russia...

Thinking about it, i deem it possible. Imagine transferring via sea all ground and air units to russia... While the americans attack in 1942

Most of the the time he would get away with it because most players dont do sealion even when prompted to do so by moriss...
Well I dare say there would have been a revolution in England then. Can you image the soldiers, sailors and airmen going to fight in Russia and leaving England completely defenseless! They would be leaving their wives, children, parents, etc. to the mercy of the Nazis!

Now that my rant is over ... :oops: ... what should be done, if anything, about this?
Well one way to prevent this is to make losing England have greater consequences than just the PP loss. Morris is doing this because he can keep the UK units active in Russia even if London and Liverpool fall.

Give Allied players a greater incentive to defend against Sealion. Move the second UK capital from Canada to Liverpool or Glasgow. If the Axis capture both capitals then implement an armistice along the French model where any surviving UK forces in the UK are either disbanded or at least relocated to Canada. The Canadian forces go to neutrality unless an axis unit lands in US or Canada. Why not? Is there any objective evidence that the fall of Britain, perhaps with the death/internment of Churchill, would have not have led to the UK withdrawing from the war?

Other possibilities? On the fall of London and Liverpool, remove all PP and 75% of the UK manpower from the UK pools to represent the loss of industry and manpower? Transfer part of the Allied oil stockpile to the Axis, representing the capture of UK oil stocks.

Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:31 am

Well, even when left with no supply british troops managed to finish off italian mech and advance forward. Looks like that 2 step infantry commited suicide attack and replaced with fresh landed unit. They can capture Palermo right away...

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In USSR Novgorod captured, closing the ring around Leningrad. We will try to assault the city now.

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Sevastopol also captured, despite constant harassment from RAF deployed here. Now we will entrench at Dnepr line most likely.

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Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:41 am

Its tough campaign on Sicily! Palermo has fallen and one of my italian corps - cut off supply.

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We were able to partly regain control during our turn, also RN CV was sunk (7 steps -> 0), another luftwaffe TAC redeployed for the area from southern USSR.

Now allies have supply from Palermo and it will be not so easy to drive them away completely (thats what we must do in orded to save Italy).

In southern part of eastern front no more action - we dig in only.

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In northern part Leningrad is sieged and will fall rather soon.

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Small section of soviet front spotted near Moscow. Let them sit there until bad weather starts!

Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:36 pm

Leningrad captured, succesfully closing all our plans for 1941 Eastern campaign. I didn't seriously commit my resources to the northen theater, but Morris was completely indifferent and didn't even put minimal defences, which could help probably.

Its strange, since every time I harassed garrison north-west of city, he replaced it with brand new unit. But when time has come for real defence, he didn't bother to put some troops between Leningrad and Novgorod.

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Anyway, city of Revolution is now in hand of german army and SS soldiers march at the streets.

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Looks like we achieved stalemate in Sicily, since allied troops stopped attacking. With more luftwaffe support axis supposed to retake initiative and capture Palermo back. Also its time to mend and upgrade italian subs for future operations.

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In northern sea Morris still escort convoys with capital ships.

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Since I do know that both subs are in MED, i will engage all this RN task force without fear.
Another BB removed from the game.

TotalerKrieg
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Post by TotalerKrieg » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:00 pm

rkr1958 wrote:
supermax wrote:Also ronnie, it is very obvious that a player like moriss could move ALL english units in russia...

Thinking about it, i deem it possible. Imagine transferring via sea all ground and air units to russia... While the americans attack in 1942

Most of the the time he would get away with it because most players dont do sealion even when prompted to do so by moriss...
Well I dare say there would have been a revolution in England then. Can you image the soldiers, sailors and airmen going to fight in Russia and leaving England completely defenseless! They would be leaving their wives, children, parents, etc. to the mercy of the Nazis!

Now that my rant is over ... :oops: ... what should be done, if anything, about this?
IMO it is fine for the British to send fighters to SU if they see fit. I believe they only have supply level 3 in SU which to some extent punishes their use on the eastern front. I believe what is missing based on what I see in the AARs posted by Plaid and Supermax is apparently the SU doesn't lose enough if the British isles are lost. How about terminating lendlease through Persia (hard to believe British would be sending lendlease to SU if they lost England) and terminate convoys to SU from US/Canada? The assumption for the latter is that Canada and US would recognize that it is certain suicide to send the convoys with the British isles lost and that way the Axis won't have to spend the oil sinking the convoys with subs. These convoys would only resume once the British isles are liberated. This would be a significant penalty to the SU in terms of PP and oil and may discourage the British cannon fodder approach as holding England becomes more important. If that isn't enough you could have Spain join the Axis if three cities in the British isles including London fall to the Axis before the US joins the war.

I don't think that England should offer an armistice to the Axis if the British isles are lost. I would rather see Canada continuing the fight against all odds (in line with the British spirit displayed during the war)... :)

supermax
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Post by supermax » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:02 am

WEll well...

So Moriss basically didnt do anything to attack you so far and minimal defense?

He is either planning something big or not playing seriously?

Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:12 am

This time RN in MED attacked my italian transport with large portion of forces.
So while this ships are far away we engage rest of them, sinking 2 BBs near Sicily (they were like 7-8 steps and yellow effectiveness, easy kills with luftwaffe support).

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About ground operation, now its stalemate. Allies attempted attack, but during my turn I repaired all troops to full strength.

In USSR soviets now approach our position. Good that weather is MUD now, so I don't expect attack very this turn.

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As usual, tons of leaders. Solid tank forces and huge RAF fighter group.

PionUrpo
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Post by PionUrpo » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:28 am

Are you strat bombing Palermo? When it goes red his Sicilian supply drops to one. Could be useful.

Anyway, nice AAR.

Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:13 am

My strat is busy bombing other objects right now...

Only notable event of this turn (№ 41) is that RN lost another BB near Sicily. Our italian ones are in bad shape, but they can be repaired fast enough.

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At the end of my turn SW started in USSR, so expect reports about Morris' masacre in next post.

Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:10 pm

Great now I understand that there is no way to drive allies from Sicily right now. Problem is that they sit in clear always fair hexes, while we sit in rough hexes with MUD weather. Also they almost killed italian infantry there.

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Looks like another game with early loss of Italy is coming, I bet italy surrenders by the end of 1942.

In USSR soviet offencive started, but nothing really deadly.

In the north german line simple holds against any soviet attacks with low casualties:

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In the south one corps destroyed and minor breakthrough reported.

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Where are siberian reserves?
USA entered the war at the end of my turn.

Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:43 am

In Sicily allies keep advancing forward and we keep sinking RN BBs. I expect only one of them left all over the map.

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In the north german lines hold perfectly.

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In the south 2 more corps lost, situation looks dangerous for Dnepropetrovsk area.

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I have some special plan for 1942, but I need a bit PPs for it. Now all my PPs go to repairs and replacement of destroyed corps units, and it is very sad.

Also we expect all-out USA landing in france next spring, as far as I remember.

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