Supermax-Moriss restart (Game stopped)

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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peterjfrigate
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Post by peterjfrigate » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:59 am

Russia looking seriously underpowered now.

Kragdob
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Post by Kragdob » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:36 am

supermax wrote:
Diplomaticus wrote:
Cybvep wrote:If Moriss somehow wins this, then he will prove that he is truly unbeatable. Several experienced players noted that he is not even that good when it comes to tactics and operational manoeuvres, so try to think what would happen if he was. He must know some sort of min-maxing strategy which the devs didn't consider. When the game is concluded, IMO supermax should send the saves to the devs for analysis.
I'm with you, brother. I completely fail to understand how Moriss is even still in the fight, given the superior play of Max and the countless howlers of Moriss. If Moriss wins this--heck, if he even comes close to winning this, then something truly is rotten in the state of Denmark. (Or as we used to say as kids, "There's something dirty in Denmark!")
Guys, relax. We are only in 1942. My manpower is still at 73%. Oil over 170. Transitionning to INF army as we speak. Will use ground to retreat and save time / ressources for 43 winter. Africa offensive going well, should be able to grand some oil before the winter in Iraq. Comes summer 1943, we should be in a very solid position, especially since our research will be even better. We'll have enough forces to defeat an allied landing again, heck we'll be even stronger.

Russian losses are at 9.8 millions. He should go under the manpower threshold in 1943 at the latest. Hes got maybee 3 tanks on the map maximum...

But i agree with you guys. I fail to understand why he is still afloat!!!
Guys,

How come he is still afloat?

Soviets have probably over 100 PP of income, Brits ~70PPs + convoys so he is able to build what he has. War is a game of appearances so I'd guess what you see is all Morris have right now - all other areas are empty. If Max could afford real offensive all Soviet would collapse within few turns probably. So Russia is saved by lack of oil and short summer period.

Max is bleeding and from this perspective Morris tactics is good. His problem is the cost of this (proportion of losses) and in my opinion this is what he does bad. Western invasion is what I think is good move (air battles is extremally costly for German limited resources) but Soviets should concentrate and hit in the north to outflank and overextend German defenses (you do not do that with 4 shitty INF corps). The biggest mistakes is that he allow Max to have relatively short defensive line which mean it can be double line - all area north of Smolensk is empty.

I would take everything from the South let Germans spend oil and overextend in pursuit to Stalingrad and move on the North in order to even overextend them more.

If he did that he could kill more German units than he would be loosing for which Germans cannot afford in long term.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

supermax
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Post by supermax » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:57 am

Kragdob wrote:
supermax wrote:
Diplomaticus wrote: I'm with you, brother. I completely fail to understand how Moriss is even still in the fight, given the superior play of Max and the countless howlers of Moriss. If Moriss wins this--heck, if he even comes close to winning this, then something truly is rotten in the state of Denmark. (Or as we used to say as kids, "There's something dirty in Denmark!")
Guys, relax. We are only in 1942. My manpower is still at 73%. Oil over 170. Transitionning to INF army as we speak. Will use ground to retreat and save time / ressources for 43 winter. Africa offensive going well, should be able to grand some oil before the winter in Iraq. Comes summer 1943, we should be in a very solid position, especially since our research will be even better. We'll have enough forces to defeat an allied landing again, heck we'll be even stronger.

Russian losses are at 9.8 millions. He should go under the manpower threshold in 1943 at the latest. Hes got maybee 3 tanks on the map maximum...

But i agree with you guys. I fail to understand why he is still afloat!!!
Guys,

How come he is still afloat?

Soviets have probably over 100 PP of income, Brits ~70PPs + convoys so he is able to build what he has. War is a game of appearances so I'd guess what you see is all Morris have right now - all other areas are empty. If Max could afford real offensive all Soviet would collapse within few turns probably. So Russia is saved by lack of oil and short summer period.

Max is bleeding and from this perspective Morris tactics is good. His problem is the cost of this (proportion of losses) and in my opinion this is what he does bad. Western invasion is what I think is good move (air battles is extremally costly for German limited resources) but Soviets should concentrate and hit in the north to outflank and overextend German defenses (you do not do that with 4 shitty INF corps). The biggest mistakes is that he allow Max to have relatively short defensive line which mean it can be double line - all area north of Smolensk is empty.

I would take everything from the South let Germans spend oil and overextend in pursuit to Stalingrad and move on the North in order to even overextend them more.

If he did that he could kill more German units than he would be loosing for which Germans cannot afford in long term.
Wow man... You make it sound so easy...

You say moriss should do this or that... But why do you think i am so depleted? Because he is as well. The fact is that he cant cover the front better than i can... The game is what it is because Moriss spends all his ressources immediatly attacking me. If he taks several turns moving his troops around, i will take the same to do similar and produce more...

As to the western allies, sure i am loosing PP, but he is bleeding PP.

Why dont you play against him if you are so smart? You make it soud so easy, yet i have not seen anyone mimic Moriss strategy.

You would not even last the first winter :)

Cybvep
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Post by Cybvep » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:03 am

Yeah, Moriss is probably the only player around who knows how to do massive suicide attacks and don't lose by 1942. Again, he probably knows a sort of min-maxing strategy which the others don't know.

supermax
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Post by supermax » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:28 am

Cybvep wrote:Yeah, Moriss is probably the only player around who knows how to do massive suicide attacks and don't lose by 1942. Again, he probably knows a sort of min-maxing strategy which the others don't know.
But saying what Moriss should do in this thread AFTER seeing my screen capture is a bit ... (...)


Simce as kragdod says, war is a game of appearances... HE doesnt do what you say because he doesnt see my setup.

Kragdob
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Post by Kragdob » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:45 pm

supermax wrote:Wow man... You make it sound so easy...

You say moriss should do this or that... But why do you think i am so depleted? Because he is as well. The fact is that he cant cover the front better than i can... The game is what it is because Moriss spends all his ressources immediatly attacking me. If he taks several turns moving his troops around, i will take the same to do similar and produce more...

As to the western allies, sure i am loosing PP, but he is bleeding PP.

Why dont you play against him if you are so smart? You make it soud so easy,
Don't take it personally :) I'm saying what I'd do from novice perspective and yes, after seeing your screenshot so yes I can be wrong. Let me have my own opinion even if you think I'm dumb.
supermax wrote:yet i have not seen anyone mimic Moriss strategy. You would not even last the first winter :)
You do not see everything :) . Not all who play this game publish their AARs and write here. I'm facing Morris like player right now and he is facing me right now in the other game. Only from those two games (seating on both chairs) I can say his strategy is extremal effective in depleting Germans although number of games I played so fare makes me for sure less skillful during execution then Morris or any other experienced Player here.

When I have some exp I'd be happy to play and learn from you.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

Crazygunner1
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Post by Crazygunner1 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:15 pm

Just to clarify, Morris makes about 140 pps with the russians atleast. So he has got the strenght to go on à bit further. Don't even think his Manpower is low yet.

supermax
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Post by supermax » Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:39 am

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Cybvep
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Post by Cybvep » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:31 am

Garrisons everywhere in the Middle East. This is bad. The advance in this theatre is slow even due to terrain alone, so several GARs can delay your advance further.

supermax
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Turn 54: The gloves comes off!!!!

Post by supermax » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:32 pm

Image

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Russian at 11 millions casualities, german at 3.5!!!!

Schnurri
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Post by Schnurri » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:54 pm

Yes, if you get Baghdad you can rail. Be careful Morris doesn't cut you off from Damascus - he likes to move units out and rail in new units, assuming he has some.

Crazygunner1
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Post by Crazygunner1 » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:08 pm

Finally you have a breakthrough...what month is it? Do you have time to exploit his weakness before winter arrives?

Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:14 pm

He will take this Brest fortress like no problem in ~2 turns, as this 75 effectiveness will not last for long with 2 TAC and 3 naval attacks per turn.

Actually I am facing the same in my game - endless flow of tech superiour allied units in france, which destroy my troops in not very favourable conditions. I think its because of unusually high tech Morris have, not because some luck.

zechi
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Post by zechi » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:22 pm

I fear you will also need Basra to get the Middle East Railway, Bagdad alone will not be enough if I remember correctly.

However, I do not think that the Middle East will matter anymore. Its a battle of attrition and at least in the east you seem to have won it. The Soviet horde crumbles and I do not think that Morris will have any significant forces in the rear of the frontline. You will now have to push as good as you can forward, then the Soviets will have a hard time to get back into the game.

In the west I think it is an error to retrat. Brest can be shore bombarded from three sea hexes. With two TAC air strikes and two ground attacks this can be sufficient to capture the city even in one turn with some luck (and not incredible luck). This does not need any miracle. Expect Brest to fall after 2-3 turns and then the western front will be much more difficult to handle as the Allies will have air superiority.

How much oil do you have?

Plaid
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Post by Plaid » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:26 pm

In older version you need Basra for sure, but now every minor capital supposed to provide rail, why not Bagdad? Never tested it myself though.

Cybvep
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Post by Cybvep » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:29 pm

It looks like the Russians are broken. If Moriss doesn't have reserves, I cannot see how he could possibly defend against your attack. The only thing I'm worried about is your weak defensive line the north, but he only has infantry there.

supermax
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Post by supermax » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:24 pm

Crazygunner1 wrote:Finally you have a breakthrough...what month is it? Do you have time to exploit his weakness before winter arrives?
We are 27 july.

3 more sure turn of clear weather.

supermax
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Post by supermax » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:26 pm

Plaid wrote:He will take this Brest fortress like no problem in ~2 turns, as this 75 effectiveness will not last for long with 2 TAC and 3 naval attacks per turn.

Actually I am facing the same in my game - endless flow of tech superiour allied units in france, which destroy my troops in not very favourable conditions. I think its because of unusually high tech Morris have, not because some luck.
I feel for you my friend...

Damn i dont understand how he does it... It blows my mind away.

Russians at 11 millions cas, western allies also high cas...

Yet...

supermax
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Post by supermax » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:29 pm

zechi wrote:I fear you will also need Basra to get the Middle East Railway, Bagdad alone will not be enough if I remember correctly.

However, I do not think that the Middle East will matter anymore. Its a battle of attrition and at least in the east you seem to have won it. The Soviet horde crumbles and I do not think that Morris will have any significant forces in the rear of the frontline. You will now have to push as good as you can forward, then the Soviets will have a hard time to get back into the game.

In the west I think it is an error to retrat. Brest can be shore bombarded from three sea hexes. With two TAC air strikes and two ground attacks this can be sufficient to capture the city even in one turn with some luck (and not incredible luck). This does not need any miracle. Expect Brest to fall after 2-3 turns and then the western front will be much more difficult to handle as the Allies will have air superiority.

How much oil do you have?
Thats my problem zechi... I did not have enough pp to do everything. My push on the easterrn front make for something that has to give... I know i am putting myself into trouble with this, but i dont have a choice. I will just have to contend with the allies in france. With the atrition level he was giving me, it wont really matter.

I know full well that this has consequences, but i have a game-winning opportunity in russia and have to take it.

My oil is LOW... ill just have to finish the game with infantry lol.

Middle east: just a side show i agree.

supermax
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Post by supermax » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:31 pm

Cybvep wrote:It looks like the Russians are broken. If Moriss doesn't have reserves, I cannot see how he could possibly defend against your attack. The only thing I'm worried about is your weak defensive line the north, but he only has infantry there.
Im sure they are far from broken... Its amazing .

Lots more battle coming up on the eastern front before i cant declare comfortably that i might have a victory.

We are both close to breaking point i think. It will now be only a attrition battle...

Axis rarely wins there. We will just have to see!!!

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