Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris please)

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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richardsd
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Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris please)

Post by richardsd » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:31 pm

test again as teh first didn't work - can someone with more knowledge than me tell me whats wrong

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richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:41 am


richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:43 am

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richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:48 am

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Ok, I think we have the technology (phase 1 anyway) sorted.

This AAR was requested by Morris to show his current Barbarrossa (started inRC16 or 15).

I have recieved these in a previous version so I know a little of what to expect. Although this started along with my other first RC15/16 game, so I haven't really got my strategy sorted yet.

As you can see its a quite an onslaught!

richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:40 am

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in the North you can see where I cut of his ARM to slow him down a little and also see the poor placement of some of my units from last turn - not moved to railing positions!

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In south you can see that I positioned my units a little better, in particular around Zhitomir where I used previously placed GAR's to help try and aid the escape of a Mech or slow his mobile units doen by attacking them - a small win either way.

All in all though, I think I would rather suffer the Barbarossa in the game being nuetrally AAR'd!

zechi
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by zechi » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:40 am

Just one question. Where did you place the units you bought initially before the invasion started and what did you built?

I'm just wondering as I usually go for a double defensive line at the Dnepr. It is possible to form the double line in three turns (nearly finished in two turns) if you have placed enough units in advance. Of course with such a strong AGS as Morris used and morale loss, such a double line will propably not hold very long, but it could be enough to slow the Axis down for a few turns which will make it impossible for them to reach Stalingrad in 1941. Of course you will lose units, but won't it be worth it?

In the screenshots I see, it does not seem that you even try to form any kind of defensive line?

richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:59 am

thats a long question so I will answer about the placing later. The double defence line you suggest doesnt work against Morris, it gets smashed in one turn as the Russians are so weak and the Axis so strong. Its a very fine balance between slowing him down, saving units and holding territory. 5 TAC's, 5 ARM and 5 MECH will still be hard to stop with a triple line in two turns from now, trust me!

richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:05 am

here is north as the mostly CORP assualt continues

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In south the Axis strength is evident :(

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after this we start our distraction plan :D

richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:20 am

here is our distraction plan, hopefully it gets his attention

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in Russia we continue to run from the advance

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forming our defence line

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and post distraction plan

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we got lucky at Rouen, but that was well and truly spoilt by our attack on the Italian MECH being stalled by the unseen Italian ARM - doh I could have attacked it with an air asset, but thats what happens when you get over excited by a result :(

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:03 pm

Morris'es spearhead in Russia is far from the truck supply so he will have supply level 3 now. Next turn is August so he will have to struggle a bit to break your southern line. I expect he will bypass the south and run towards the Urals via Stalingrad. It seems Morris'es strategy is to create a super blob that will go for Omsk and a second force that will go for Moscow. Both forces expect that capture the capitals in 1942 and force a Russian surrender.

Make sure your big southern force doesn't get cut-off from rest of Russia if Morris is running towards Stalingrad and the Caspian Sea. Then you will be too weak to protect against the storm against Omsk in 1942.

Morris will get a very long flank if he places screening forces along the Don. Those flanking units can be attacked and you can cross the Don and attack his rear.

To save Russia I think a very strong Allied invasion of France is needed. If you can take Paris and send in more and more troops in France then Morris will have no choice, but to send new German units to the west. Do you have the strength to move towards Tobruk and Benghazi? Just put pressure on the Axis where you can and only withdraw if a superior Axis force arrives. Then you have bought time.

I believe Morris has maximized the number of units for the east and not built a lot of subs, labs and units for the Med. This is something you need to exploit. If you can save Russia then he will pay the price for not putting max effort in research. Maybe USA can focus on air and land units prior to November 1941 instead of many naval units? You might need a few destroyers to protect the transports, but probably not the CV's and BB's Getting more units to France if you manage to keep the foothold there is essential to overwhelm the Russians.

This game is a game that will be decided in 1942. Either Morris will crush the Russians or the western Allies will gobble up Germany with Axis units stuck in Russia.

joerock22
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by joerock22 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:30 pm

Looking at this game makes me think that maybe I should have invaded France in 1941 in my game against Morris. But I was confident that I could survive as the Russians, and indeed the Soviets will not surrender in 1942 (hopefully not at all). I'm curious to see how this proactive approach with the Western Allies works out.

My main piece of advice after experiencing this strategy (and with the old rail/truck supply rules to boot) is this: do not let Morris pull you into a major engagement on his terms. The Russians should fight major battles in winter and non-clear terrain only. The Russian south is vast and not worth a whole lot. It is definitely not worth losing too many units over.

richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:57 am

oh dear, August turns out to be pretty nasty :(

In the west Morris destroys (as good as) my landing, but at least thats a few CORPs and an SS MECH that aren't in Russia

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still we continue to try and be a distraction and sink the BB to boot

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I now (a bit late really) know what my strategy would be if faced with this again, but never mind we are were we are.

Here is the start in the east

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and the Med to show whats happening there

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in the North I place my 2 x CORP's reinforcements

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in the south I have a bit of an each way bet, I do my absolute best to slow the Axis advance, risking as little as possible

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the good news was that I didn't have to use my air assets to finish off the ARM, it was in the plan but the ground units did the job (death will be their reward :( )

Its a big loss but I want to try and prevent Morris from getting the oil and outflanking me before winter

richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:28 pm

we seem to have lost some posts

here is the last guaranteed fine turn, late September

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in the west we start to organise for the next phase, although our harassing attacks get poor results

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in Moscow we slow our reinforcements as it appears Morris has given up for now and wants to reinforce the south

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in the south we concentrate on killing the forward ARM and try to build a defence line - and start praying for winter!

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richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:22 am

this turn we get a small break as its mud, so we continue our defensive posture

here are the after shots

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we prey for winter

richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:37 am

yahoo, winter :D

lets see if we can put some pressure on - screen shot after winter turn, nothing of note anywhere else

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by kaigab73 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:54 am

against this tactic, as russians isn't better to just "give" space ? we all know it's impossible for russians to fight in '41 before winter, too much low quality/efficiency. so i believe it's usless to try to hold stalingrad, or caucasus: if germany gets to rostov by july as in this game, they will take it anyway. so better save the troops and retreat to Uralsk and mountains south of Grozny. This way germany will have stalingrad and grozny but you will have your army intacts and in '42 it will be impossible for germany to get to Omsk: they will have too many troops near uralsk to attack, and they will be forced to keep many troops near grozny as well.

this tactic works only if germany is able to destroy many units in '41 so russia is never strong enough to hold in '42. if you save all your units, in '42 russia will have tons of divs and will hold. and in '43 allies launch DDay and germany will be forced to retreat in east.

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Schnurri » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:55 pm

But, if you let the Axis take Leningrad and Stalingrad the first year and get to the gates of Moscow, Moscow will surely fall the next summer and then it is very difficult for the Russians ever to come back. Allies will be forced to do a 42 Sledgehammer that may likely fail and then there is very little chance to come back in 44/45. Don't know how you stop this Axis blitz. I'm going to try something different in a game with Morris and see if I can hold Stalingrad and Leningrad.

richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:10 pm

well I certainly want another go, I have messed this one up, but I think its stoppable (baring April good weather maybe!)

we get some relief with severe winter arriving, although another turn or so of winter would have benn nice, a bit like the US joining, that would be nice too!

here is the start in the south

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we decide to take a risk and push 'in the middle', hope fully he doesn't have too many strong units in the area and we can cause some issues (I have chosen this area partly as the rail heads make it slightly easier to move around - and escape!)

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in the Atlantic we are executing stage 2 of the naval war, protecting Russian convoys and sweeping for subs

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bingo! although we can't have STR's as the US isn't in :evil: so we don't even get the bases

richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:29 am

oops, we forget to take before shots

here is the after action in the Atlantic, another SUB bumped (5 DD's sweeping) and the US is in - good to finally see ya boys :D

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in the south we continue with our plan

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it will be interesting to see what Morris does now that he has had a turn to prepare

richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:22 pm

interesting, Morris repaired the ARM and the CORP - I thought he would have left the CORP

as you can see he has brought up some MECH's

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we press forward focusing on as much damage as we can (without moving into an unseen zoc), we kill the CORP, reduce the ARM and kill the IT CORP with commander

we also continue to mop up the minors, sothern MECH killed and the pocketed one soon to join its CORP friend

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from here we are now actually going to focus primarily on getting as many of our MECH's out as possible, the CORP's are really now to be blockers

If I can save enough of the winter offensive troops I don't think Morris can take OMSK and the oil unless he brings a whole lot more units to the front

I wonder if he will just go for Moscow?

in the Atlantic we bump another sub :D but the second STR does no damage and the SUB survives at 1 step :(

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