Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris please)

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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Diplomaticus
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Diplomaticus » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:27 pm

Some things to remember as you prepare for winter 41-42:

1) If M hasn't changed his strategy, he has something like 20-25 German Korps in Army Group North. He will use this to drive a wedge between Moscow and Leningrad so that he can surround Moscow & wipe it out.

2) Don't make Joe Rock's mistake in the first winter of wasting your precious shock armies banging your head against a rock. Choose carefully a spot where you can actually win combats and eliminate units. I would look very seriously at setting yourself a winter offensive goal of driving back into that gap between Moscow & Leningrad. You'll have the problem of the forest terrain, but it will help your strategic situation a whole heap in 1942, and it has the extra added benefit of leaving you in excellent defensive posture when the weather clears in spring.

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Schnurri » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:16 pm

I think you've done pretty well considering the force you were up against. My two cents, I'd try and get some of the elite units in striking range and try to take out some Arms and Mechs in winter. That really blunts the offensive for next year. They go down fairly easily if you've concentrated on anti-tank for your Arm and Inf research.

Or, focus defense with Shock Army's on Moscow and let him go wandering up towards Omsk and take him out there in winter 42. Seems you can't defend everywhere so force him to go the least favorable way. Just thinking aloud.

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:16 pm

ok, Morris is now on the defense in Russia

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thats a little oil burnt to move back!

aggression off Norway

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at this point we are still considerring what we will do next - so strategy discussion will come later

in the mean time we continue our defensive work and STR attack Stalingrad in case he has a FTR not on sentry, oil burn :D

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in Europe we have more of the same, but with three interceptions :D

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unfortunately we miss a chance in Norway as we attack one sub but then bump another with our last move :(

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novice mistake - move naval before air combats!

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Schnurri » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:52 pm

A thought - could you convert the Leningrad Corps to a Guard with some select (careful) attacks against weakened units so it transforms during the winter and makes a much tougher cookie come the inevitable summer assault?

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:23 am

yes indeed, I am just waiting for the defense lab to kick in - grrr scientists

I have also been carefully looking at taking out the fortress (amph with a Partisan or GAR) which he keeps leaving empty, but the conditions just haven't quite been right!

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Crazygunner1 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:55 am

Interesting situation, to bad you are not in à position to strike already. You are running out of time to strike in the south...unless you risk getting caught on open field. Remember that you need à LOT more inf to withstand the 42 offensive.

Do you have any shock troops elsewhere not showing exept siberian reserve?

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:21 am

ok, time to fess up on the string strategy

the essence of my plan is to 'string him along and string him out'

so what does that really mean

'string him along' - I wanted to draw him into a 41 battle in the Causcuses and hopefully hold him there in winter, so thats a failure. He just wasn't as aggressive as I wanted (maybe he is learning). I did string him a long a bit, but lost a CORPS and a MECH that I didn't need to :( still, he has burnt a lot of oil to get where he is, which is just Stalingrad, plus some there and back again in the Caucuses buring oil :D . Its still a long way to the oil!

'string him out' - this is more important, I want to put pressure on in lots of ways for a long time (string him out), PP's, Oil and defence lines. He defends in a very compact 'blob' (central Europe plus Russia) which gives him short internal lines for easy and quick unit manouver & response. I want to stretch that. He also gets a lot of PP's from Russia, I want to counter that as much as I can with Bombing and FTR step replacement when he intercepts (Norway is also part of this). Finally oil, I want him to burn as much as possible without him making too much in the way of strategic gains. So far he has just Stalingrad, which is actually possible without his 'extreme' execution. I won't defend the open spaces in front Stalingrad, if wants to come to Omsk he can burn oil to come to me and lose some efficency doing so.

So the big question is what do I do next in Russia, where to put the winter offensive - if anywhere

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:33 am

Crazygunner1 wrote:Interesting situation, to bad you are not in à position to strike already. You are running out of time to strike in the south...unless you risk getting caught on open field. Remember that you need à LOT more inf to withstand the 42 offensive.

Do you have any shock troops elsewhere not showing exept siberian reserve?
I just have the max in MECH that you can probably see. Originally I wasn't planning a winter offensive, in fact my plan wasn't even to hold Moscow after 41 winter (preserve and retire). The original fighting plan was to wear him down a little in the Caucuses in 41 (his ARM and MECH), then move the Moscow INF to defend the terrain line to Omsk and build ARM in late 41 to counter punch his ARM/MECH as he closed in on Omsk.

Unfortunately my plan hasn't survived contact with the enemy! (and didn't really survive the Russian scientists poor efforts either!).

Now I am rethinking the abandonment of Moscow in 42 (although I still lean that way). Maybe I could pressure Lennigrad/Finland and his southern flank, Sedvastapol to the Caucuses?

thinking!

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by rkr1958 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:39 am

richardsd wrote:
Crazygunner1 wrote:Interesting situation, to bad you are not in à position to strike already. You are running out of time to strike in the south...unless you risk getting caught on open field. Remember that you need à LOT more inf to withstand the 42 offensive.

Do you have any shock troops elsewhere not showing exept siberian reserve?
I just have the max in MECH that you can probably see. Originally I wasn't planning a winter offensive, in fact my plan wasn't even to hold Moscow after 41 winter (preserve and retire). The original fighting plan was to wear him down a little in the Caucuses in 41 (his ARM and MECH), then move the Moscow INF to defend the terrain line to Omsk and build ARM in late 41 to counter punch his ARM/MECH as he closed in on Omsk.

Unfortunately my plan hasn't survived contact with the enemy! (and didn't really survive the Russian scientists poor efforts either!).

Now I am rethinking the abandonment of Moscow in 42 (although I still lean that way). Maybe I could pressure Lennigrad/Finland and his southern flank, Sedvastapol to the Caucuses?

thinking!
Maybe I'm missing something but looking at the map I don't see why you would abandon Moscow so easily. Morris looks particularly weak in the center. What am I not seeing?

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:49 am

rkr1958 wrote:
richardsd wrote:
Crazygunner1 wrote:Interesting situation, to bad you are not in à position to strike already. You are running out of time to strike in the south...unless you risk getting caught on open field. Remember that you need à LOT more inf to withstand the 42 offensive.

Do you have any shock troops elsewhere not showing exept siberian reserve?
I just have the max in MECH that you can probably see. Originally I wasn't planning a winter offensive, in fact my plan wasn't even to hold Moscow after 41 winter (preserve and retire). The original fighting plan was to wear him down a little in the Caucuses in 41 (his ARM and MECH), then move the Moscow INF to defend the terrain line to Omsk and build ARM in late 41 to counter punch his ARM/MECH as he closed in on Omsk.

Unfortunately my plan hasn't survived contact with the enemy! (and didn't really survive the Russian scientists poor efforts either!).

Now I am rethinking the abandonment of Moscow in 42 (although I still lean that way). Maybe I could pressure Lennigrad/Finland and his southern flank, Sedvastapol to the Caucuses?

thinking!
Maybe I'm missing something but looking at the map I don't see why you would abandon Moscow so easily. Morris looks particularly weak in the center. What am I not seeing?
the 15-20 other CORPS in the FOG of war

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:50 am

now to be fair, I don't 'know' that, but experience tells me so, maybe its worth poping an AIr unit in to see - maybe

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:57 am

Crazygunner1 wrote:Interesting situation, to bad you are not in à position to strike already. You are running out of time to strike in the south...unless you risk getting caught on open field. Remember that you need à LOT more inf to withstand the 42 offensive.

Do you have any shock troops elsewhere not showing exept siberian reserve?
there are two MECH's you can't see :( not a lot!

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Crazygunner1 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:14 am

Don't think you should push this winter offensive to hard, just take out às much corps as possible around moscow. Disengage in time to redeploy you shockforces where you can threaten his flank somewhere. He Will probably go up north either for Omsk or moscow.

Maybe it is à good idea to reinforce the forests around moscow with à load of inf. Let them entrench, gain org. Don't forget the backdoor to moscow. That Will cost à lot of oil and manpower to dislodge if he tries.

Don't go chasing his shock troops in the south, you will make minimun damage and risk ending up with your pants down during summer.

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Kragdob » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:59 am

Crazygunner1 wrote:Maybe it is à good idea to reinforce the forests around moscow with à load of inf. Let them entrench, gain org. Don't forget the backdoor to moscow. That Will cost à lot of oil and manpower to dislodge if he tries.
I agree. You already have a blob in the south. If you make another in the North it gives you two things:
1. He will not have it that easy to outflank Moscow
2. You will be threatening strategically his push towards Omsk. Basically any gains furter East will be meaningless because you will be able to start your offensive from Moscow or South so reaching outskirts of Omsk does not delay you from going back to Berlin.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Crazygunner1 » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:23 am

So then he would have no choice but to go further south or north towards moscow, that is why you have to make the defenses around moscow good.

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:30 am

so no change in Russia, but Morris comes out fighting in Norway

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we find the third sub and he sinks my BB with help from Air and the BB from Denmark (we were a turn too late with our Russian sub)!

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on balance we decide to duke it out and try and sink more of the kreigsmarine - this time we remenber to move our naval assets before air attacks

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so we bumped and sank his second sub which means he has 1 1step sub plus the one in port, no doubt he will sortie the second BB, which we are happy with - we will trade if we have too, especially as its burning his oil in Europe, 5 FTR interceptions!

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:50 am

well well well - the worm has turned :o

Morris wants to fight for and around Norway - bring it on I say, well actually burn that oil and lose that kreigsmarine :D better to have it out of the way now

as expcetd I lose a BB as he sorties his BB, then a whole bunch of Italian transports head to Norway

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we are happy to trade and sink a transport and heavily damage his BB

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now this little skirmish in Norway and the Europe bombing/ftr sweeps have to be burning oil :D

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eslewhere we bomb some shock troops

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:02 am

Crazygunner1 wrote:So then he would have no choice but to go further south or north towards moscow, that is why you have to make the defenses around moscow good.
but how about melt away from Moscow after he is committed and then launch elswhere?

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:29 am

large scale conflict in and around Norway - just what we want :D

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and Axis quiet elsewhere

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we make a concerted effort around Norway, we will take som Naval damage but do we care 8)

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thats the entire starting Kreigsmarine on the bottom, we will take punishment, but he will do well to sink CV's in the winter

there was sweep/bombing and shorebombardment help!

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in Russia we are hampered by the fact we still don;t have our lab upgrades in place :( but we do get some annoying air attacks in :D

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and move a little in the North

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:39 am

more of the same from the Axis

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they burn oil in Norway, we scoot off to better prepare for round two

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of course the bombing contiues :D

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in the South he repairs and moves his assetts that I am straffing

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we just hit him again

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in the North he moves to a better defence postion outside of Lennigrad

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we start to nibble - shame we couldn't make him retreat in the North

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