Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris please)

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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Diplomaticus
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Diplomaticus » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:27 am

I really like what you did with your shock armies. If you play your cards right, you can eliminate the threat of his double-envelopment of Moscow.

Your oil-burning strategy must be taking a toll too, I would think. I don't see how he can do all this and still afford a major offensive in the summer.

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:57 am

much the same although Morris doesn't retreat his strike units in the south (we will hit them again then :D )

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in Norway we continue to regroup for the next phase

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in the south we nibble again

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in the north we take the rail head and manage to push a CORP back into Lennigrad :D

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we continue to keep everything in red with our bombing and we see another FTR on intercept, lets hope our oil buring focus works :|

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:01 am

Diplomaticus wrote:I really like what you did with your shock armies. If you play your cards right, you can eliminate the threat of his double-envelopment of Moscow.

Your oil-burning strategy must be taking a toll too, I would think. I don't see how he can do all this and still afford a major offensive in the summer.
we hope so, we have put a lot of effort into it!

Plaid
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Plaid » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:24 am

I believe axis still have more then enough oil (say 500+).
By the september 1942 it will be below 100, if Morris will just ignore it (thats what I suppose he will do) and go for major all-out offencive.

Remember, he didnt done anything oil-consuming before Barbarossa at all, so he started with something like 700-900. By the end of his 1941 campaign it could be as low as 400.

And now, in winter, he suffer some minor oil losses every turn and he lost one of oilfields in germany to your bombers, but he still gather like +30 every turn.

Its not like I pretend this estimations to be accurate (in fact its hard for me to judge because my playstile with axis is totally different - I ignore oil thing and still it never ended so far, though in older versions before 2.0 I often ended '42 summer campaign with 100 or less and cant mount anything in '43). I just want to clear, that Morris deffinetely can and will move all his oil-consuming units as soon as fair weather arrive. Question is for how long, and its not like the answer is "couple of turns".


Also I dont think that Norway campaign worth it. You struggle in bad terrain against weak defenders and still its very hard to achieve anything there.
Maybe garrisoning Bergen and Trondheim and leaving Oslo alone would be better solution, then this campaign. On the other hand you have lots of PPs from convoys. Maybe this massacre still favour allies in the long run.

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:43 am

Plaid wrote:I believe axis still have more then enough oil (say 500+).
By the september 1942 it will be below 100, if Morris will just ignore it (thats what I suppose he will do) and go for major all-out offencive.

Remember, he didnt done anything oil-consuming before Barbarossa at all, so he started with something like 700-900. By the end of his 1941 campaign it could be as low as 400.

And now, in winter, he suffer some minor oil losses every turn and he lost one of oilfields in germany to your bombers, but he still gather like +30 every turn.

Its not like I pretend this estimations to be accurate (in fact its hard for me to judge because my playstile with axis is totally different - I ignore oil thing and still it never ended so far, though in older versions before 2.0 I often ended '42 summer campaign with 100 or less and cant mount anything in '43). I just want to clear, that Morris deffinetely can and will move all his oil-consuming units as soon as fair weather arrive. Question is for how long, and its not like the answer is "couple of turns".


Also I dont think that Norway campaign worth it. You struggle in bad terrain against weak defenders and still its very hard to achieve anything there.
Maybe garrisoning Bergen and Trondheim and leaving Oslo alone would be better solution, then this campaign. On the other hand you have lots of PPs from convoys. Maybe this massacre still favour allies in the long run.

you are right that oil won't be a problem yet - but he has been burning a small steady amount on FTR interceptions and if we wants to go south for oil or north for Omsk, I will wait so he bunes at least 2-3 turns before he contacts my real units

my whole strategy might not work, but its still very early

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Plaid » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:48 am

As long as you guard south noone will go there. Thats my strongest belief, because mountains offer huge defence benefits (similar to fortresses) and great movement penalties.
Conquering the place will burn much more oil, then this oil wells will ever produce.

Morris does not look like a person, who use flexible strategies, I bet he will do all same things like in game vs Joe and in other games.

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:09 am

Norway is an essential part of my strategy, so far it has:

- allowed me to sink the entire starting kriegsmarine (which will be helpful later)
- stop some PP's (he hasn't done that well in Russia pp wise as really he only took Stalingrad) it all helps
- drawn in 3 Italian units which won't defend in Europe now
- cost him a bunch of oil (which I am happy to trade for PP's as I have been doing)

not sure how I can hurt him elsewhere in 41?

plus in 42 he loses the Berlin PP's and his second synth plant

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Cybvep » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:52 am

Remember to bomb or intercept Swedish iron. It's 6 PP per turn!

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by jjdenver » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:31 am

Really fun AAR to read. Thanks.

richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:18 am

ok, so its getting close to decision time for all!

no change from the Axis

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we spend a turn preping in Norway

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and continue our boring bombing

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in the north we hit the CORP again and take some chances to see where Morris has his strength - it could hurt us!

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in south we move our airstrikes to the south of what we assume is the 'attack blob' around Stalingrad

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next two turns should be interesting

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:49 am

could be our last bad weather turn :( shame as we are strung out in a few places

Axis continue in the same vein

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looks like the Luftwaffe has started to move east!

for us its a strike turn in Norway

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and of course, more bombing :D

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in the south we ping again

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if we had known what was going to happen in the North we might have moved a TAC instead, never mind, we continue as before but get a lucky retreat on his GAR, we now have a temporary pocket 8)

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trulster
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by trulster » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:24 am

I see in this new GS the iron ore is on map as a big fat resource in a hex controlled by Germany (and not neutral Sweden). Does this mean you can paradrop from Trondheim area and take it? If so this is a must operation for the Brits!

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Plaid » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:38 am

You deffinetely can do it, but paratrooper cost 15+15 PP + 10 for drop + unit will be lost there once and for all, unless you DOW Sweden and sort the things hard way.
By the way just checked hotseat - germans get straight 6 PP from that mine, not like x0.5 for occupied territory, so its quite worthy target for bombers or paratroopers anyway.

richardsd
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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 am

we had a quick turn around from Morris, I think because we caught our first break - winter again!

no change from the Axis and we mainly operated in the North and Norway, although our boring bombing continued

In the North we manage to kill one of the weakened CORP's and cut another off - fun for a little while at least :D

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in Norway we continue as expected, Morris swapped the GAR for a CORP, but already its in trouble

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:20 am

Plaid wrote:As long as you guard south noone will go there. Thats my strongest belief, because mountains offer huge defence benefits (similar to fortresses) and great movement penalties.
Conquering the place will burn much more oil, then this oil wells will ever produce.

Morris does not look like a person, who use flexible strategies, I bet he will do all same things like in game vs Joe and in other games.
I am counting on him not being able to do three things at once = Moscow, Caucuses and Omsk!

If he can then there is not much I can do.

I am trying to make Moscow dificult by my Northern attack. I am hoping he doesn't have the air assets to manage three areas of operations (europe to counter the bombing, Moscow and Lennigrad as another area and finally a drive to Omsk or Caucuses)

I think he will try for Omsk and Moscow, the question then is what does he have left for the Caucuses?

We shall see :?:

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Clark » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:32 pm

richardsd wrote:
Plaid wrote:As long as you guard south noone will go there. Thats my strongest belief, because mountains offer huge defence benefits (similar to fortresses) and great movement penalties.
Conquering the place will burn much more oil, then this oil wells will ever produce.

Morris does not look like a person, who use flexible strategies, I bet he will do all same things like in game vs Joe and in other games.
I am counting on him not being able to do three things at once = Moscow, Caucuses and Omsk!

If he can then there is not much I can do.

I am trying to make Moscow dificult by my Northern attack. I am hoping he doesn't have the air assets to manage three areas of operations (europe to counter the bombing, Moscow and Lennigrad as another area and finally a drive to Omsk or Caucuses)

I think he will try for Omsk and Moscow, the question then is what does he have left for the Caucuses?

We shall see :?:
If he can get Moscow and Omsk, he won't need to worry about the Caucasus. ;)

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by trulster » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:06 pm

Plaid wrote:You deffinetely can do it, but paratrooper cost 15+15 PP + 10 for drop + unit will be lost there once and for all, unless you DOW Sweden and sort the things hard way.
By the way just checked hotseat - germans get straight 6 PP from that mine, not like x0.5 for occupied territory, so its quite worthy target for bombers or paratroopers anyway.
Cool, denying the Germans 6 PP per turn is definitely worth "losing" one GAR for the Brits.

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:21 pm

Clark wrote:
richardsd wrote:
Plaid wrote:As long as you guard south noone will go there. Thats my strongest belief, because mountains offer huge defence benefits (similar to fortresses) and great movement penalties.
Conquering the place will burn much more oil, then this oil wells will ever produce.

Morris does not look like a person, who use flexible strategies, I bet he will do all same things like in game vs Joe and in other games.
I am counting on him not being able to do three things at once = Moscow, Caucuses and Omsk!

If he can then there is not much I can do.

I am trying to make Moscow dificult by my Northern attack. I am hoping he doesn't have the air assets to manage three areas of operations (europe to counter the bombing, Moscow and Lennigrad as another area and finally a drive to Omsk or Caucuses)

I think he will try for Omsk and Moscow, the question then is what does he have left for the Caucuses?

We shall see :?:
If he can get Moscow and Omsk, he won't need to worry about the Caucasus. ;)
do, not succeed :D

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by Plaid » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:17 pm

trulster wrote: Cool, denying the Germans 6 PP per turn is definitely worth "losing" one GAR for the Brits.
Its not GAR, its paratrooper. You will not even be able to recruit new one, as this will not be destroyed and still will occupy limit, and you dont have this many british paratroops (you get first in 1942 and in 1944 its like 3 I believe).
Also you can deny all same PPs (yes, less effectively) only parking few naval units near Norway.

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Re: Can we save the Bear, Richardsd vs Morris (no Morris ple

Post by richardsd » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:19 pm

it won't take much to bomb it!

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