Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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Crazygunner1
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Crazygunner1 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:37 pm

trulster wrote:
Crazygunner1 wrote:I see a few possible strategic gains in this. Portugal if not dealt with will remain as a thorn in the side for the Axis. They can´t really take it back easy and as soon as Barbarossa is aproaching the allies can declare war on Spain and take advantage of that. Since allies already have a foothold in europe, Axis have to divert many useful forces in order to stop the invasion or throw them back into the sea. Early start of invading europe...
Hmm not a good idea in most games I think. Even with Barbarossa going on, the Germans can always rail enough quality troops to shore up the Spanish, saving them from conquest and then driving the Allies into the sea (worth a bit of pause in the Eastern Front in my book), and then you have just granted the Axis a bunch more PP, units AND manpower.
Trulster, i am not so sure about that....yes sure the allies are weaker on the ground but not in the air. England has atleast 3 fighters perhaps 4 to but up against luftwaffe. That´s a pretty good number early in the game, so the allies will most likely have air superiority. Ground units will be a problem though, but lets say 2 mechs and 5 corps with with some leaders attached to them and some supporting gar, that could do the job. Or they axis have to put up a moderate force to stop them. I hope Max tries so we can see how it would play out

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Cybvep » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:48 pm

Invasion of Spain may be a good idea, but not before Barbarossa. Since it's still 1939, Diplomaticus holds most of the cards. The Allies won't become strong for some time...

Crazygunner1
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Crazygunner1 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:52 pm

Cybvep wrote:Invasion of Spain may be a good idea, but not before Barbarossa. Since it's still 1939, Diplomaticus holds most of the cards. The Allies won't become strong for some time...
Yeah...he has 2 options

1. Invade Spain before the fall of France
2. Use Spain as a buffer against Axis untill Barbarossa

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by richardsd » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:22 am

Crazygunner1 wrote:
Cybvep wrote:Invasion of Spain may be a good idea, but not before Barbarossa. Since it's still 1939, Diplomaticus holds most of the cards. The Allies won't become strong for some time...
Yeah...he has 2 options

1. Invade Spain before the fall of France
2. Use Spain as a buffer against Axis untill Barbarossa
I think there is a good bit that can be done to annoy the Germans pre and early Barbarossa.

For a start the Germans have to keep the rail to Spain open which requires troops in Southern France that can't go to Russia, at least two CORPS and as noted the RAF will have Air Superiority if there is action.

Plus it could just be a gigantic fake to get the Axis to try Sealion :D

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Diplomaticus » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:47 pm

AXIS GRAND STRATEGY

I'll back up here and comment on my overall approach to this game. As soon as Max challenged me to a rematch I was intimidated. Max is a ferocious opponent, and his way of hitting you early and often--and always where you least expect it--had me spooked before I'd played a single turn. I foresaw a game where Max would be constantly harassing my flanks, making it nearly impossible to get on track with a good 1941 Barbarossa.

So I decided that the first order of business would be to try to utterly cripple England. From the getgo my plan was to attempt a Sealion against Max and, further, to seek out and destroy the UK/Commonwealth forces whereever I could find them. The idea was to so cripple the English that Max would simply be incapable of doing his usual harassment attacks. I knew this would mean foregoing an early 1941 Barbarossa, but I was holding out the hope that I might pull off a summer '41 attack on Russia, depending on how things turned out.

My experience defending against Max's Fortress Europa strategy would help in this, since I now know first-hand what it's like as England to have your back against the wall. Also, I learned a ton in my game against Joachim where I tried something similar; the blunders I made in that game (Jo's kicking my butt!) proved an invaluable lesson as I began my match with SuperMax.
Last edited by Diplomaticus on Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Diplomaticus » Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:02 pm

So, we'll now fast-forward to the spring of 1940. Muddy weather prevented any dramatic developments, but when the skies cleared in March, I was able to quickly give the coup de grace to France.

Rejecting the Armistice was 100% out of the question. The entire French fleet was intact. The Armee de l'air was in Portugal, as were one or two French land units. So I was glad to accept the Armistice and watch all those weapons go "poof." I was also glad to see this message:

Image

Since I had things so well in hand by the end of February, I had risked sneaking a single German Korps into the Channel, ready to land if the weather was fair next turn. Max probably didn't see the transport, due to limited visibility in the bad weather. In any case, the Wehrmacht made its landing on the same turn that Paris fell. The next image shows the April 8, 1940 turn:

Image

I don't know if Max was expecting my Sealion, but he quickly established a double defense line and counter-attacked to boot. This wasn't going to be easy, but then, against Max I didn't expect anything less.

The above screen shot shows the beginning of the German turn. On my move I scooted the wounded Korps eastward to Dover while I landed a strong mechanized unit in its place. This meant that I saved one of my amphibious landing allotments for later.

You can see that this is a very small-scale Sealion so far, but you must remember that Paris only fell at the end of my March move. I had a lot of units out of position and/or wounded, so it would take time to shift gears.

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by joerock22 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:16 pm

A small-scale Sea Lion can work. German tanks and mechs can usually take out a full-strength garrison with air/naval support. I just hope you have more bombers on the way!

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Crazygunner1 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:18 pm

You got any bombers or subs in "the mill"?

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Morris » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:01 am

Before Aug 26 th, UK is very poor ! I have experienced this in the AAR with Joe . :(

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Diplomaticus » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:54 pm

As a footnote, I'll point out that a funny thing happened on the March 1940 turn:


Image

Without a DoW, Max invaded the Spanish Tunsten mine so that I saw this image when I opened the file for March. Some of you will recall that there was an update of the game some time in the work on 2.1 that would make it impossible to bomb or capture either the Spanish tungsten or the Swedish ore without declaring war on those countries. However, since Max doesn't have an updated version of the game (every time I open I file I have to click through a half-dozen messages about "checksum errors", etc.), the game allowed the move.

We were kind of stuck there at first, trying to figure out what to do, but Max kindly agreed to re-do his turn, and so we proceeded without the glitch.

I point this out because from what I've seen a lot of players still don't have fully updated versions of the game. It would be nice if we all were using the same version. Anybody have a bright idea about how to make that happen without unduly burdening our Alpha team?

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Cybvep » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:02 pm

I get cheksum errors as well, mostly from users who are playing on MAC.

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Kragdob » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:13 pm

Taking Portugal is in my opinion a very good move by Max. If he keeps it by the time US enters the war he may engage Axis on the ground as early as in 1942. Allies with passive Axis can invade Europe in 1942 so without a need for invasion this can be pretty deadly.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by pk867 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:19 am

Concerning the Mac players can you pm me and let me know who they are. All of the Mac beta testers were given access to the latest version which is the release version back in July.

If they did not get it then they need to email me about getting the files. If they are not part of the beta test team they have to wait for the release.

If your version is not up to date, that is why you will get checksum errors. The other thing is if the players have altered the text files this will also cause checksum errors.
This is a way to verify the files between players. If you play with checksum errors then your results will not count as much since the game goes back and forth changing values during play. If you receive a checksum error, you have to ask your opponent about the file and determine the date of the file. if they match then you should not receive an error. If the date is the same then the values within the files have to match. If you play and do not verify the files, you then have to ask one of the Dev team about the errors to determine the cause.

You should not play a game with different version of the game that leads to poor results concerning balance and game play mechanics.

You should only play games where both versions match. Some of the earlier versions that have bugs that are not patched and your version which could be the release will not fix the issue. it will take a couple of turns of each side to correct the errors. But the game started with the wrong version will not play the same as one started with the up and coming release version. I am surprised that Max and Diplo have different versions. They were both notified to get the latest back at the end of July. I can not reason why you get checksum errors or why he was able to take the mine with no DoW. That could be a bug, but you have to notify the Dev team to look at that.

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Morris » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:37 am

Kragdob wrote:Taking Portugal is in my opinion a very good move by Max. If he keeps it by the time US enters the war he may engage Axis on the ground as early as in 1942. Allies with passive Axis can invade Europe in 1942 so without a need for invasion this can be pretty deadly.
I agree with you . Taking Portugal will force Axis to take care of NA to get Spain . It is a strategetic benifit for Allies . But If Axis know this & deploy some sub around Lisbon , it will be difficult to accomplish this at low cost . It is a chance to Kill RN !

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Morris » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:42 am

Diplomaticus wrote:As a footnote, I'll point out that a funny thing happened on the March 1940 turn:


Image

Without a DoW, Max invaded the Spanish Tunsten mine so that I saw this image when I opened the file for March. Some of you will recall that there was an update of the game some time in the work on 2.1 that would make it impossible to bomb or capture either the Spanish tungsten or the Swedish ore without declaring war on those countries. However, since Max doesn't have an updated version of the game (every time I open I file I have to click through a half-dozen messages about "checksum errors", etc.), the game allowed the move.

We were kind of stuck there at first, trying to figure out what to do, but Max kindly agreed to re-do his turn, and so we proceeded without the glitch.

I point this out because from what I've seen a lot of players still don't have fully updated versions of the game. It would be nice if we all were using the same version. Anybody have a bright idea about how to make that happen without unduly burdening our Alpha team?
Maybe you can ask Max to upgrade the game & replay this turn . In long terms it is a lot of pp ! It is better to play in same version otherwise there will be a lot of weird thing :)

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Diplomaticus » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:34 am

I definitely have the most up-to-date version of the game. From what Max has said in his emails and also in some postings on this forum he has been unable to find a way to update. I believe he uses a PC. As he said, Paul has provided instructions for all of the Mac players on the Beta team for getting the latest and greatest version of CEAW GS. But is there a similar set of instructions for the PC players?

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Kragdob » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:43 pm

Morris wrote:
Kragdob wrote:Taking Portugal is in my opinion a very good move by Max. If he keeps it by the time US enters the war he may engage Axis on the ground as early as in 1942. Allies with passive Axis can invade Europe in 1942 so without a need for invasion this can be pretty deadly.
I agree with you . Taking Portugal will force Axis to take care of NA to get Spain . It is a strategetic benifit for Allies . But If Axis know this & deploy some sub around Lisbon , it will be difficult to accomplish this at low cost . It is a chance to Kill RN !
There is always a chance for both sides, but if Allies control Portugal they have greater on the open seas with their CV/DD fleet. (if they don't loose their navy earlier ;-) )
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Diplomaticus » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:59 pm

Okay, back to my progress on Operation Sealion. Here's the next turn, April 28, 1940:

Image

As usual, these images show the beginning of the Axis turn.

Immediately I recognized that, as he's hinted in the forums, Max believes in committing the RN to stop Sealion. Suddenly I see 6 RN units, including the CV, making a strong move into the west part of the Channel. In this, I think I see an opportunity, so I move the Bismark BB into the port of Cherbourg to blast that vulnerable DD (sorry, no screen shots for this set of moves) and put my DD on supply duty for the landing. I decide my hurt sub needs repairs, so I send it to Antwerp. Meanwhile my amphibious invasion takes a big step forward as the mech, helped generously by the Luftwaffe, destroys the British HQ, advances, and my big panzer unit hits the beaches in its place. I've established air superiority, my other sub moves in to cover for the u-boat retreating for repairs, and since all of his fleet is in the west, there's nothing to threaten entrance to the Channel from the east. All is proceeding according to plan.

Then I open up the May 1940 turn and...

Image

Yikes! :oops:

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Cybvep » Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:55 pm

Sea Lion failure? I see one remaining non-submarine naval unit...

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Crazygunner1 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:59 pm

Haha, you can never ever leave your subs adjent to rn dds....obviously that goes without saying after this ;)

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