Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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Crazygunner1
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Crazygunner1 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:53 am

Diplomaticus wrote:Okay, back to my progress on Operation Sealion. Here's the next turn, April 28, 1940:

Immediately I recognized that, as he's hinted in the forums, Max believes in committing the RN to stop Sealion. Suddenly I see 6 RN units, including the CV, making a strong move into the west part of the Channel. In this, I think I see an opportunity, so I move the Bismark BB into the port of Cherbourg to blast that vulnerable DD (sorry, no screen shots for this set of moves) and put my DD on supply duty for the landing. I decide my hurt sub needs repairs, so I send it to Antwerp. Meanwhile my amphibious invasion takes a big step forward as the mech, helped generously by the Luftwaffe, destroys the British HQ, advances, and my big panzer unit hits the beaches in its place. I've established air superiority, my other sub moves in to cover for the u-boat retreating for repairs, and since all of his fleet is in the west, there's nothing to threaten entrance to the Channel from the east. All is proceeding according to plan.

Then I open up the May 1940 turn and...
He as got no othere choice to commit RN since his ground units are in Portugal :D

Kragdob
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Kragdob » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:58 am

This reminds me the discussion that I had some time ago that everybody said that there is nothing wrong in transport being able to defend against three naval attacks even though I provided examples of what havoc could single war vessel bring to unarmed merchant ships.

Here you have a good example of 'gamey' usage of transports to block movement of naval units in this very single crucial turn...
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

Kragdob
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Kragdob » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:07 am

Diplomaticus wrote:Then I open up the May 1940 turn and...
You still have enough air units to kill his CV and BB next to your units. Even DD can be badly damaged. If you use your subs (will be visible!) then they will protect your BB from RN retaliation.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

Crazygunner1
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Crazygunner1 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:13 am

Kragdob wrote:This reminds me the discussion that I had some time ago that everybody said that there is nothing wrong in transport being able to defend against three naval attacks even though I provided examples of what havoc could single war vessel bring to unarmed merchant ships.

Here you have a good example of 'gamey' usage of transports to block movement of naval units in this very single crucial turn...
True, but it works both ways, Diplo could have done the same to protect and block enemy ships.

But naval combat units should have the option to go through the transport without engaging in combat if the hex on the other side is vacant.

Cybvep
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Cybvep » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:39 am

But naval combat units should have the option to go through the transport without engaging in combat if the hex on the other side is vacant.
I agree, this "blocking" ability of transports is stupid and annoying. I observe strange, reckless behaviour with transports in far too many games.

Diplomaticus
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Diplomaticus » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:13 pm

These so-called "transports" are really hastily armed merchant vessels, old decommissioned mine sweepers from WWI, the HMS Victory re-manned and sailing out from Portsmouth, and a rowboat full of old ladies from Stow-on-the-Wold--all answering the desperate call of King and country.

Let's, too, remember that we tweaked the rules so that *garrison* transports are a lot weaker than other transports. The team instituted that rule because of this very sort of behavior. As you'll see when I post my next move, those garrison transports are extremely vulnerable to air attack.

Cybvep
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Cybvep » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:18 pm

These so-called "transports" are really hastily armed merchant vessels, old decommissioned mine sweepers from WWI, the HMS Victory re-manned and sailing out from Portsmouth, and a rowboat full of old ladies from Stow-on-the-Wold--all answering the desperate call of King and country.
Yeah, right, vessels full of soldiers (who can be unloaded into a coastal province easily), which act as any other in-game transport in general. Let's not delude ourselves.

Crazygunner1
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Crazygunner1 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:32 pm

Cybvep wrote:Sea Lion failure? I see one remaining non-submarine naval unit...
There are still some angles, the fact is that Max might loose a lot of RN ships at the end of this.

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Cybvep » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:52 pm

True, but this is usually the case when you intervene with the RN. The question is what he will achieve strategically-wise. If the result is a failure of the whole operation or a very very costly Sea Lion for the Axis, then I think that it will be worth it.

Morris
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Morris » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:38 pm

Well done Max !
But it is not the end of world for Diplomaticus . He can use two tac & one sub sink the BB & use one sub & one tac & one BB to sink the CV & reset the supply . Use all rest Axis airforce to attack All RN. I think Axis & Allies has equal possibility to win the sealion battle .

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Diplomaticus » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:22 pm

Morris wrote:Well done Max !
But it is not the end of world for Diplomaticus . He can use two tac & one sub sink the BB & use one sub & one tac & one BB to sink the CV & reset the supply . Use all rest Axis airforce to attack All RN. I think Axis & Allies has equal possibility to win the sealion battle .
Well, Mr. Morris has seen a way out, and... after initial panic and a lot of careful study of the situation... I eventually came to a similar conclusion.

First order of business was to take care of that CV. Now, at the time I was too panic-striken to take screen shots, but I've been saving all the files, so it was pretty easy to replay the turn more or less as it originally went--so here's my "reconstruction" image:


Image

This was done by first drawing the CV into a dogfight by attacking his sub. Then my strongest remaining fighter strafed the CV. At that point it was so weak the sub sunk the carrier pretty easily.

Now, my next problem was to clear the way so my battleship could come to the rescue. I had my eyes on more than just re-supply of my landings--I also wanted to sink that BB of his.


Image

We've got a discussion going in the forum about the use of gar transports as blockers in situations like this. Well, I have to say that those gars were sitting ducks, though each one took 2 attacks to destroy (either 2 air or air + naval unit). Max paid a high price for his gamble--losing not just the value in PP and MP of those transports, but also the 8PP@ transport "fee."

I didn't replay the whole turn, so I cannot remember exactly how it played out, but I know that I sunk both his carrier and that BB, and I used any remaining free air units to strike the RN. Crisis averted--whew!

Cybvep
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Cybvep » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:26 pm

How high is the efficiency of your OOS units?

Morris
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Morris » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:52 am

well done , Diplomaticus ! The most important point is that UK is too poor to supply the wounded RN. There are only around 19 pp income each turn ! It is the most difficult time for UK to suffer a sealion ! I just suffered it from Joe . The one who can finish the France early ( before April) should own this advantage to do this . :)

Crazygunner1
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Crazygunner1 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:42 pm

You still need a couple of turns to get back on track, hopefully your supply Will last :)

supermax
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by supermax » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:28 pm

He will he will...

The action you see here is more than 3 weeks old.

:)

Morris
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Morris » Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:04 am

supermax wrote:He will he will...

The action you see here is more than 3 weeks old.

:)
you have no choice but give up England or lose everything in England ! I do understand your situation which I just experienced ! :)

supermax
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by supermax » Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:08 pm

Well, as we all know when the axis decides to concentrates on the brits and not attack Russia in 41, there isnst much Churchill can do about it.

So yes, i will give way in England, but in a more interesting turn of event as you may think.

The goal now is to be as much a pain in the ass as possible to the germans while saving the fleet from destruction.

And... Prepare the Russians for what will be a Fortress Europa that i will beat. :)

Kragdob
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Kragdob » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:32 pm

Its turn 14 (a little bit later probably) so you can take Gibraltar, Malta all NA & Middle East + whole UK. If you manage to do it you should be able to win with the Russians.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by supermax » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:40 pm

Mmm its not ncessarily a game winner believe me...

Cybvep
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Re: Diplo v Max Rematch: The Lisbon Opening

Post by Cybvep » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:04 pm

Yeah, the Allies become supper-strong in 1944. It seems that many players try to be too ambitious with the Axis in 1944 and as a result their losses are too high. IMO understanding when and where to give ground is one of the biggest challenges when playing the Axis.

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