Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:40 pm

Both sides had spies who could tell about activity on certain factories. So the enemy had some idea about production of certain units.

In GS the reported numbers for enemy units are not 100% accurate. The differ from the real value with about +/-2. Over time you can get a pretty good indication of the accurate value.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:44 pm

richardsd wrote:
Stauffenberg wrote:You can't hide the number of subs you have built.
you can to an extenet delay building them and build lots in one turn
So can the Allied player. DD's only take 5 turns to produce. So the Axis player will get a head start, but will soon be caught.

It's probably good for UK to save PP's and build what you need when you see the intentions of the Germans. That also applies to the situation when France is about to surrender. If you have a healthy PP reserve you can quickly respond to German plans for Sealion. If Sealion doesn't happen you can use the PP's for naval units and labs.

The Allied player will get punished if they make builds without thinking about what the Axis player is doing. So delaying builds can be a working strategy.

GogTheMild
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by GogTheMild » Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:07 pm

Unfinished business in the Gulf.

You may remember that from this position:

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I captured Basra, causing the Brits to scuttle the carrier in port. That left the three BBs. They were free to move to the Atlantic, where they were liable to meet lots of hungry U-boats. I was free to bomb them to pieces; if I didn’t mind running the gauntlet of Kragdob’s FTRs. So there they sat for quite a while. Eventually I overran Ahwaz and the FTRs moved off. And I had a couple of spare subs and moved them to the Gulf. Whilst this was happening I was shipping round a flow of transports from the conquest of Morocco to Basra. Each one popped out of the transportation hex and neatly into Basra port. I was nearly ready to start Operation Clear-the-Gulf when a German submarine upgrade came up. As nothing exciting was happening I nipped into Kuwait City to take advantage.

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Mistake. The next transport decided not to head straight for port, but instead parked itself next to an Allied BB! I wish that I knew how the AI decided where to deposit ships leaving transportation loops. The red blobs are all that are left of my transport:

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I hit back with the German sub but decided to keep the Italian as a surprise:

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Then some odd moves from Kragdob. The damaged BB runs for the Atlantic. The Free French BB tries to join it but runs into the Italians – who inflict no damage but at least don’t get too badly knocked around themselves. The third BB proceeds to hide in a corner of the Persian Gulf. This seems a very odd move.
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I close up and hit the FF BB:

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Kragdob swaps his BBs and the second gets the treatment:

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Meanwhile the damaged BB has arrived in the Atlantic:

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Note that it is now on 5 steps, not 7. This makes me think that it was ambushed by the Italian sub, lost a couple of steps and was involuntarily sucked into the Atlantic transport loop. I didn’t realise that that could happen. A couple of feeble attacks by the Italians:

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And the survivors ran for the Red Sea. They would keep. Note in the last pic my sub near the convoy bouncing off one of Kragdob’s subs, which he is gamily but effectively using as escorts.

In the Gulf I finished off the British BB and then sent the Italian sub back to the Atlantic:

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The FF BB proved a tough nut to crack. (So did the other one, off Casablanca. Do they have some special inbuilt anti-sub advantage?)

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Then off to the Red Sea:

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And the Casualty Table end of the Axis move, turn 57. Kragdob has lost 5 BBs, although 2 have been Free French. The rest of his naval losses will be DDs.

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You might gather from this, quite correctly, that the war in Russia is not going well. More on this later.
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

Morris
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by Morris » Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:48 am

GogTheMild wrote:You might gather from this, quite correctly, that the war in Russia is not going well. More on this later.
But for the whole game strategy , the war in Russia is extremly important for Axis ! Even if make great victory in Altlantic , you lose the war with USSR , you will lose the game ! Now you have got Irac & almost control Altlantic , just concentrate everything to deal with Russians since Russia is already quite strong around this period . :)

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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by GogTheMild » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:52 am

Partisan problems.

My game with Kragdob rumbles on. We have reached June 1943 and I am taking a beating. This time the delays have mostly been my fault. As 3.0 is now out I thought that I would high light one of the new features.

The French resistance seemed to think that it could liberate the south of France without outside help:

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And I need three extra GARs in France, because a partisan taking a rail depot will be in supply. Thank goodness for the Spanish. A partisan turns up next to Orleans:

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I am not much worried.

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What on Earth! How did that happen? Kragdob must have hit me with two TACs and then got a lucky roll to force the retreat. Irritating. In a turn or three I will send an INF along to sort him out.

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Ah. After the Casablanca debacle Kragdob had two British FTRs trapped in North Africa. I assumed that he had flown them to Corsica, where they were just as trapped, as they could only relocate to an in-supply hex. Yes. Well. And they were in no hurry to leave. They laughed at my damaged GARs attempt to dislodge them.

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Only the approach of a Spanish INF persuaded them to cut short their French vacation. They flew off to Britain, from whence they continued to plague me for the rest of the game.
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

Kragdob
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by Kragdob » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:23 am

Turn 59, November 4th 1942

Since Gog has very few time I decided to hijack this AAR and put more life into int. So here we start.

Gog's strategy is Fortress Europe with Axis dominating Atlantic with swarms of SUBs. By summer 1942 Axis has conquered all NA, acquired Spain, conquered Egypt and Iraq. Atlantic is ruled by SUBs and Allied DDs fear to swim as 5 SUBs can easily sink any exposed DDs. Practically no convoys reach its destination.

When summer came in the East Germany launched 1942 Barbarossa which was not opposed by Red Army. We only delayed Axis forces and prepared organized defensive-offensive line where Axis were supposed to reach in the autumn of 1942. By end of August German reached Smolensk-Kharkov-Stalino line but soon withdrew to reorganize and prepare for the winter. Red Army followed and kept contact with the enemy. The plan for Russia is standard: regain initiative during winter season and drive West since then.

In the Middle East turn 50 meant Axis offensive on Iran. I expected limited offensive and was a little surprised by Gog's commitment. Iran was attacked by ARM, 2 MECHs, several INF corps supported by 3 FTRs and 3 TACs (all German). Plus additional Spanish and Italian support. Our initial plan assumed tactical abandoning of Teheran and then crushing counter-offensive of British 8th Army supported by massive Soviet air force (which would not have much to do in Russia during summer anyway) and some ground units as well. What was planned as quick operation turned out to be bloody fight in the mountains south of Tabriz. By end of summer British 8th army was reduced to 3 INF and 1 ARM corps and we were happy we brought so much Soviet forces as without them Axis would reach Caucasus for sure. After all I was happy Gog invested so heavy in Iran campaign. This allowed Red Army to inflict considerable losses on German ground and air units. During the campaign Germans lost 1 MECH, 2 INFs, 1 FTRs and some minor corpses as well. A huge toll was paid in air steps as with 8 FTRs in total we were able to fly both offensive and defensive missions which wearied off German air force pretty quickly.

In the Atlantic we tried to protect a huge 100PPs British convoy but Axis SUB force was too powerful, after loosing 2 DDs we needed to retreat to American ports for refit and upgrade as Allied Supreme Command planned 1942 invasion of Europe which main target was capturing Brest fortress and prepare it as a base for further Allied operations on the continent. Operation "Tickle" started in September and after a month Allied forces had captured Brest which closed the operation with 100% success.

Eastern Front
Eastern front is all mud and we just wait for winter to start the offensive. It will not be as devastating as it should be since most of Red Army's air force is still occupied in the south but with Axis weakeness we still hope for decent results. Reaching 4 INF corps / turn kill ratio will be full success of the operation.

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Middle East
At the end of the summer it looks like finally breakthrough will be soon achieved. Germany seems to be loosing their strength. During the turn we finally seized Bandar Pahlavi which opens soviet rail route into the heart of Iran. This campaign is in my opinion a high success due to very high German PPs loses. 3 FTRs were not enough for 8 Allied units which enabled us to drain a lot from Axis. A chance of encirclements of Axis center positions is arising but this turn's attack on Kirkuk was canceled due to unsatisfactory bombing results.

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France
After capturing Brest we ordered the retreat for the invasion forces back to UK. We do not want to engage in winter when our air forces are weaker. Time for return will be in summer 1943. This front's main mission is to draw as many Axis resources from the East as possible. During this turn Germans lost 2 INF corps and 1 PARA division which is very satisfactory end of the operation.

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Atlantic
Allied Naval Advisory Board have derived new naval combat tactics and all remaining DDs were sent to the sea with the mission to carry two PARA units to UK. Those units will be the key for our operations in France in 1943.

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Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

Kragdob
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by Kragdob » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:41 pm

Turn 60, November 24th 1942

Some long needed upgrades came during this turn.

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Russia
Still mud. Next turn winter starts and our offensive as well.

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Middle East
Our MECH in Bandar Pahlavi was countered by Italian MECH but luckily it was not destroyed. 2-step tank escaped but it will not survive, we have enough bombers to erase it.

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UK/USSR armored group was formed to hit Teheran and Sarkan oil fields. Second arm of the pincers stands still. We do not want to loose precious UK INF due to some counter. A Russian INF was brought to take necessary loses. The German MECH will probably escape but definitely not without loses. And German loses is what we want.

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France
A counter as well but our MECH survived, it will be evacuated together with American tank and remains of a para division. French INF was left to keep entrenchments.

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Atlantic
Our transports joined DD group - the key turn for the operation will be the next one! We are going to see how our devious plan works.

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Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

GogTheMild
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by GogTheMild » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:50 pm

This is how the next turn, 61, ended for the Axis:

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We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

Kragdob
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by Kragdob » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:43 pm

Turn 61, December 14th

Russia
Winter comes (but still no severe one) so our offensive starts. We have little air support so moderate beginning - only 3 Axis corps destroyed.

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Middle East
Alllied forces reach Sarkan oil fields and outskirts of Teheran. Italian INF corps destroyed in the process. Heavy German air loses. We had a hit on German TAC but we missed it by 1 step!

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France
Not much happening. Our French INF destroyed so we punished Germans a little bit for that. Other units withdraw in order.

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Atlantic
Here is how our convoy broke through blocade. We paid only minor price for that: 1 "recon" BB and 1 DD was lost.

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Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

GogTheMild
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by GogTheMild » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:47 pm

To Tabriz and Back or The Destruction of Army Group Persia.

Apologies for the long break in this AAR. This section will back track from some of Kragdob’s contributions to look at the campaign in Persia (Iran) in a bit of detail: demonstrating the differences caused by the new terrain and also a couple of tactics enabled by the new rules and used effectively by Kragdob.

As Barbarossa opened on the Russian border, I had significant forces lined up on the Persian border. Their tasks:

• Seize the 24 oil points per turn in Persia.
• Seize the 5 PPs per turn – the ½ in Tabriz would be a nice extra.
• Protect the 18 oil points and 5½ PPs already held east of Suez.
• Damage the British forces in Persia.
• Pull in and tie down Russian forces.
• Generally distract Kragdob.

The extra oil should allow my air units and heavy ground units to go flat out year round and keep my, rather large, sub fleet running. The 11 or so PP would be handy; perhaps more importantly it would deprive the UK of 22 PP which combined with his convoys being strangled would have to hurt him. In previous games this strategy has also rather neatly split the Soviet effort.

Here is how I was lined up:

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And this is how the first few turns unfolded:

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So far, so smooth. The story of the game to date. Kragdob keeps retreating and I pick off straggling GARs. The only fly in the ointment was my paradrop; intended to block or delay Russian reinforcements it simply got trampled over. Otherwise it seemed too good to last. There was a very good reason for this.
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by Kragdob » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:18 pm

I missed that GAR a lot...
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

GogTheMild
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by GogTheMild » Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:01 pm

I put a FTR forward to have a peek over the other side of the hill. Oh dear:

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All was quite for a couple of turns, and then in August the Allied offensive rolled out of the Caucasus like the Wrath of God:

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Hmm. Note how Kragdob has put his weaker FTRs on sleep, whilst leaving his stronger, and probably higher eff and Dogfight, FTRs on intercept duty. I took out an exposed Russian INF and moved up more troops.

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Allied heavy units move up to keep the attack going supported by relentless air attacks.

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Once again I go for an exposed INF, British this time. Soften up from the air:

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Then the Italians take the entrenchment off in a near suicidal assault:

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At which point I should have sent in a TAC, but I got carried away and took needless INF casualties as a consequence:

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Then I remembered to use the TAC :

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I held on to the PrtScn button a little too long during the final attack, but the Brits were put out of their misery:

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The Allies just kept coming. I lost a second MECH.

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I couldn’t keep this up forever. But a stream of reinforcements were despatched:

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And a string of determined counter attacks:

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I was moderately happy with the end of turn situation:

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But Kragdob was determined:

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Note that now Kragdob is keeping the high quality RAF FTRs on sleep, whilst the VVS was enough to stay on top of my worn out FTRs. I was determined too:

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The bloodbath continued:

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I’d had enough. I paused to reinforce:

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My FTRs were worn to nothing, whilst half the VVS and RAF seemed grouped in the Caucasus. I no longer viewed the future with any optimism.
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

Kragdob
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by Kragdob » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:14 pm

Turn 62, January 3 1943

Russia

Severe winter arrives which increase effectiveness of our attacks. Germans tried to fall back but couldn't do it everywhere so we could reach some important spots. Red Army concentrated in the north which allowed us to make several breakthroughs which will pay off in next turns. Major objective now is to destroy as many units as possible.

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Middle East

8th Army and Red Army move forward. Next turn general assault on Kirkuk planned.

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France

Our retreat is almost over. We will resume operations when fair weather comes and our parachuters are ready.

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Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

GogTheMild
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by GogTheMild » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:16 pm

Back to the travails of Army Group Persia.

I may have paused, but Kragdob hadn’t.

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My units dug into mountains were, for now, safe; but the others were bombed to ruins and then over run. He had enough air units to use in relays, so I was nearly always hit by full strength units. And his ground units just didn’t seem to get tired.

The weakened Luftwaffe could still hold its own when counter attacks needed putting in:

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Which went well:

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There was a little good news as some new techs came on line:

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Too little too late. The Anglo-Soviet steamroller just keeps rolling:

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I put in a completely futile counter attack:

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The steamroller is now running out of control:

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More good news:

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For those German units still fighting. Maxed out Sub Tech in Jan ’43 and so:

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A look at how well Kragdob had been bleeding me:

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The survivors scattered:

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Two air units were routed to the Atlantic by transport. This will use less oil than flying, and may even be faster. Baghdad and Basra were, a little belatedly, garrisioned.


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Kuwait and Baghdad are attacked – Kragdob is not wasting any time in the pursuit.

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Meanwhile, a thousand miles away, Spanish and German troops were arriving in Suez to put together a new defence line:

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That’s what I call a multi-national task force. Not before time as the Russians approached:

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And Basra was mopped up:

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I shipped the 1 surviving step off to Suez.

More good news:

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Between the Organisation level 3 and +10 eff for holding Athens and Port Said the Italians are on their way to becoming a decent fighting force. I suspect that I am going to need them. (The late stage at which the German Armour comes through at shows clearly where I had been economising my Tech investments.)
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

GogTheMild
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by GogTheMild » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:12 pm

Battle of the Atlantic continued.

We left this part of the game with Kragdob having made a determined attempt to drive his convoys through, but losing 3 DDs and a BB in the effort and failing to get a single PP of convoy to its destination. For the next 20 turns the only convoys to get through were 1 and 2 PP dregs which I didn’t want to waste oil on.

Turn 54.

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Turn 55.

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Turn 56.

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Turn 57.

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Turn 58.

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Turn 59.

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Turn 60.

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And so on and so on. Sadly Kragdob was to conclusively prove that the hypothesis that the Western Allies, and even the Russians, rely on the Atlantic convoys was false. Not even when combined with heavy early losses to the Allied navies. But I am getting ahead of myself.
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

pk867
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by pk867 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:32 pm

you may have done better with less U-Boats. So you spent more on subs where it should have been spent on something else.

GogTheMild
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by GogTheMild » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:54 pm

pk867 wrote:you may have done better with less U-Boats. So you spent more on subs where it should have been spent on something else.
Indeed. But this was meant to be a test of whether under the new rules a) the Axis could effectively close the Atlantic to the Allies; and b) if they could,just how much this would harm the Allies. I made my purchase decisions whilst we were still in Beta testing, and bought into the popular myths that the answers were a) only with difficulty; and b) a lot. And it wasn't a deadly serious game: it was a test of some of the Beta test principles. Also Kragdob is a superior player to me and I held few hopes of victory, but hoped to give him a few shocks along the way. I was right about the first bit, but didn't manage the second.
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

GogTheMild
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by GogTheMild » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:21 pm

Size isn’t everything.

Kragdob heavily escorts what is clearly a valuable cargo:

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This has already been covered above. It presented me with the classic U-boat dilemma. I could easily have stopped the convoy by forming a solid line of subs. And Kragdob would then have gleefully launched his DDs at them individually, getting 4:1 or 5:2 results with each over run. So I set up a broken line to see what strays I could disable.

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One BB, one DD. (Note that the sub which stopped the DD lost 5 steps doing so.) Less than I had hoped, but more than Kragdob could sustain if this was typical. Kragdob was to emphatically demonstrate that he didn’t need to ship any more transports across the Atlantic. Although I would continue to easily destroy every convoy, my subs had effectively become useless. I just didn’t realise it yet.

I mopped up the DD and the BB and spread out into a hunting pattern:

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Note the German Grand Fleet heading south. As previously mentioned, in turn 62 my German sub tech maxed out:

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Meanwhile Kragdob had found a more useful function for his navy. Standing guard over his invasion of Brittany. In those narrow waters and with his burgeoning American TAC force it would have been suicide to have sent my subs in.

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The German navy linked up with the Spanish and Italian navies to form the Combined Fleet:

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Where it sat, as impotent as my subs.

Until turn 70, when I sent in a couple of sacrificial subs to try and ambush his transports. (And succeeded!) In the same turn Kragdob took Cherbourg unexpectedly and my patience snapped.

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The results of which will be in my next post.
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

GogTheMild
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Re: Kragdob educates Gog on 2.2.

Post by GogTheMild » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:20 pm

The death ride of the Combined Fleet.

It probably wouldn’t do much long term good, but I had had enough of the Axis fleet rusting away at anchor.

In go some subs to soften Kragdob up:

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The last step was finished by a FTR.

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Then the DDs went in:

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I didn’t get many screenshots after that, but from memory a Spanish DD hit a third sub and bounced. I then hit an RN DD with a couple of TACs and finished it with a BB:
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Position at the end of the turn:

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Position at the start of the next turn:

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The subs had been spared, but the sea was full of floating wreckage where the Combined Fleet had been. The single survivor, a German BB, was penned in by subs:

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Ah well. C’est la guerre. The two uncommitted Italian BBs cowered in Spanish ports.
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf.

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