Double move considerations

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Geordietaf
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Double move considerations

Post by Geordietaf » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:40 am

Overall I am very pleased with the double move option. I think it neatly simulates non-tactical movement out of contact in column rather than line.

I notice that the double move ability covers troops who are in command range at the time they make their move. This means that if the commander giving them the ability double moves out of range before a unit is moved it can no longer use the double move. This happened to a group of cavalry that I was flank marching and the commander had to go back next turn to pick up the stragglers!

Conversely, by judicious use of the commander, one group can be sent off on a double move and then the commander can nip off and send another group, previously out of command range, on their way.

Is this what was intended, or should double moves be restricted to units in command range at the start of the turn?

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Re: Double move considerations

Post by TheGrayMouser » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:58 am

Geordietaf wrote:Overall I am very pleased with the double move option. I think it neatly simulates non-tactical movement out of contact in column rather than line.

I notice that the double move ability covers troops who are in command range at the time they make their move. This means that if the commander giving them the ability double moves out of range before a unit is moved it can no longer use the double move. This happened to a group of cavalry that I was flank marching and the commander had to go back next turn to pick up the stragglers!

Conversely, by judicious use of the commander, one group can be sent off on a double move and then the commander can nip off and send another group, previously out of command range, on their way.

Is this what was intended, or should double moves be restricted to units in command range at the start of the turn?
I dont know what was intended but I agree with your observation... Maybe it is the way it is for ease of game play?

Blathergut
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Post by Blathergut » Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:06 pm

Let's play a while with it before we restrict it. I like it as is...gives that inspired commander somethings to really do each turn! :D

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Post by Examinondas » Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:48 pm

Overall I like double moves as they are (specially for fast flank marches) and even the AI makes some use of it.
Last edited by Examinondas on Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by petergarnett » Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:54 pm

I don't feel it should be restricted to inspired only - a troop leader taking a few cavalry BG's around a flank or hiding in some woods with his warband to rush out & surprise his opponent are realistic IMO.

Geordietaf
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Post by Geordietaf » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:09 pm

Blathergut wrote:Let's play a while with it before we restrict it. I like it as is...gives that inspired commander somethings to really do each turn! :D
Yes, I don't think there's any need to rush a change and I agree that it does give extra options to inspired generals, particularly on horseback, which add depth to the game

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Post by Blathergut » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:44 pm

I think the double moves have now given infantry armies some means of combatting the swarmy horse armies. I've had spear-armed MF zip from one flank where there were no mounted to the other where there were swarms of LH in a matter of two turns. :)

76mm
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Post by 76mm » Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:37 pm

OK, now that I've tried it, I still don't like the double move. The concept in general makes sense, but as implemented I find it gamey and unrealistic, and my sense is that its main purpose is to speed game play, which is hardly necessary on the PC.

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Agree with 76mm

Post by MasterChief81 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:49 pm

I understand the desire to speed up the first few games turns while you are closing on the enemy but it appears to give some units unrealistic capabilities. If you are going to keep it though I do like the idea of it only being available to units in command.

deadtorius
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Post by deadtorius » Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:58 pm

It is only available to units that start their move in command range of a leader. Problem some are complaining about is that the commander can move and bring new units under his command range and they get the double move too. Quite different from the TT where the commander has to join a battle line of several connected battle groups and have them under his control, and he has to stick with them for the whole move, there he can't split off and grab more troops to double up. I agree it makes some new tactics available for sure.

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Post by Geordietaf » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:12 pm

deadtorius wrote:It is only available to units that start their move in command range of a leader. Problem some are complaining about is that the commander can move and bring new units under his command range and they get the double move too. Quite different from the TT where the commander has to join a battle line of several connected battle groups and have them under his control, and he has to stick with them for the whole move, there he can't split off and grab more troops to double up. I agree it makes some new tactics available for sure.
I wasn't complaining, just observing. I don't think the double move is 'gamey': I like the new tactical dimension and think it does reflect the difference between tootling along out of range of the enemy and moving deliberately when contact is imminent.

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Post by MesaDon » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:42 am

I agree the developers should leave double moves as it presently is. I played the beta before the requirement of the leader in command range and believe me that addition to Double moves was a major improvement. Of course it is an option.

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Post by Gersen » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:55 am

Overall, I like double moves. It has really improved my Verneuil scenario, making the Fench flanking moves realistic and entertaining, and balancing the scenario a bit better.

It has also improved the battle of Pharsalus which I am currently playing MP. The armies are set far apart and closing with the enemy used to take forever. I even had bizarre game where we used all the turns unrealistically dancing round each other. That probably wouldn't happen now.

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Post by deadtorius » Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:17 pm

I am liking the double moves too. The one thing I find kind of humorous is that leaders are always in range of themselves and can always do the double move. Good reason to get those lights up fast I guess.

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Post by Geordietaf » Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:03 pm

deadtorius wrote:I am liking the double moves too. The one thing I find kind of humorous is that leaders are always in range of themselves and can always do the double move. Good reason to get those lights up fast I guess.
They can do the double move only if they are more than 5 hexes from the enemy

deadtorius
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Post by deadtorius » Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:37 pm

true, I just find it kind of funny to see them have the option to barrel about the battlefield full throttle, which could probably come in handy some times. Also a good reason to keep one back from the action for those warp moves

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Post by Malty666 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:30 pm

Well if the troops are far from the enemy, it would make sense that they can move faster. They are less worried about how they are holding their equipment or maintaining perfect lines - and are more focused on getting to their destination.

The new rules - as many have said - allow quick deployments and reserves to be brought up. It also gives you a reason to use your light forces to prevent your opponent gaining space - thus restricting his deployment (which was how light troops were meant to be used).

I like 'em as they give you a whole new set of tactical considerations. :D
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Post by 76mm » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:06 pm

Malty666 wrote:Well if the troops are far from the enemy, it would make sense that they can move faster. They are less worried about how they are holding their equipment or maintaining perfect lines - and are more focused on getting to their destination.
Sure, that's all true enough. but I think it should be the commander making this decision rather than an arbitary five hex rule. In an emergency, a commander might bring his men up in column right up to the enemy, or ignore pesky light units. Another issue is that at times units might decide to charge at the enemy at a run, thus "double moving" right up to the enemy. In the game, however, a single sling unit, already being meleed by three or four other units and unable to fire or move, prevents a huge portion of the line (ten hexes across) from double-moving. These and similar reasons are why I think the current double-move rules are arbitrary and thus "gamey". Everyone else seems to like them though, so more power to you.

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Post by deadtorius » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:41 am

It still based on the TT rules where you can double move units with a general attached to them, but only if the enemy is more than 6MU (I will say hexes for ease of reference here) away. On the TT you can't double move up and shoot since you have to stop just outside bow range, which is also covered in the PC rules.
Guess we can't please everyone.

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