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Battlefield Maps

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 1:08 pm
by lpgamble
What are the two most important features to you in a map generator for FOG type games?

1) Terrain variance based on army lists
2) Realistic terrain Modeling (rivers going around hills etc.)
3) Multiple choices for the map
4) Excluding terrain types (no dunes etc.)
5) High variance in Terrain types (twentyish types - diff with overhead cover, diff without cover, etc..)
6) Different map every time
7) Visual look of the map
8 ) Unusual terrain shapes
9) Water feature variance (Water ways, small chance of horizontal river, etc)
10) Domiant terrain for armies (higher chance of terrain type for certain armies)
11) High varriance in amount of terrain per map
12) Map Picking system (Def gets 8 random maps generated one at a time. He must decide yes or no upon map creation, but has to have 4 picks, Attacker chooses his most preferred map of the 4. The prefered map has higher chance of being picked but any of the four could wind up being picked.)
13) Map generated from both players choices ( def I want 4 terrain peices, off I want 0 terrain peices)
14) Settable Map Height and Width
15) Applying terrain to random sectors (9 map sections)

Re: Battlefield Maps

Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:28 pm
by deeter
Are you working on such a generator? I'd make it as close to the TT rules as possible, focusing on a fewer terrain pieces that clutter the map for starters.

Deeter

Re: Battlefield Maps

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:35 pm
by the_iron_duke
I have a question which involves battlefield maps which I'll ask here instead of starting a new thread.

My question concerns the maps for the D.A.G. multiplayer games: what is the method of selecting them? Given that one chooses one of four maps in roughly half of these games I must have seen hundreds of maps. Yet some I've only seen once, while others (most notably a flat map with some small lakes in the middle on either side) I seem to get almost every time.

Also, although there is already a good selection of maps it would, of course, be great if some more maps could be added to the roster. They are pretty easy to make, don't take up much memory and add for a more varied, richer multiplayer gaming experience!

Re: Battlefield Maps

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:11 am
by the_iron_duke
Anyone know if the initial choice of D.A.G. army book affects the selection of maps that come up for multiplayer? Any information on how maps are selected?
As I see it, the maps come in three flavours:

1) Fixed maps. Unvarying maps available for selection often.
2) Variations on a theme. Almost a fixed map but with some individual differences. Not sure if there's some random terrain generator/modifier that affects or creates the map.
3) Rare maps that I only see once. There was once one with a meandering river and a delta fan. Another with a big hill in the middle.

Re: Battlefield Maps

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:05 am
by davouthojo
OK, from what I remember:

All DAG maps are fixed. Barren vs Green and which end you start are the only random variables.

You see some maps more often than others due to how they are selected. All maps are put in a ranking (used to be 1 to 100, must be more now with more maps). You can see the maps ranking in the top left e.g. 500 point DAG game (T30) T30 is the map number. Lower numbers are rated more crowded, but the ranking is a little arbitrary.

To select the individual map, the initiative winner's terrain choice is weighted ?75%? and the loser 25%. This is added to a random factor to calculate the 4 T#s you are presented with to choose from.

So you are very unlikely to ever see map 1. It would require both opponents to pick "very crowded" and the random element to roll low. On the other hand, there is likely to be a hump in the distribution curve in the middle you will see often - e.g. both players picking mixed.

Originally there were 100 maps for 40x30, the 500 point map, I think 50 each for large and small. With additions from expansions, this number may have ?doubled?

If anyone knows the exact mechanism, put it here and I am happy to paste it into the wiki

Although it is unlikely to happen until the new FOG is built, I agree that adding new maps would be one of the cheapest ways for slitherine to keep FOG fresh. Cothyso, if you are listening in, this could be automated to make it maintenance free: Players create maps to standard sizes, upload to a site, players vote on whether they should be in and what density ranking, when votes reach a certain level they are incorporated into the next release.

Another idea that has been suggested before is to get closer to the TT terrain process, selecting "plain, river, forest, hills, cultivated" rather than just a one dimension scale.

Re: Battlefield Maps

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:28 am
by Gersen
To the OP - could you explain the purpose of the question?

Re: Battlefield Maps

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:23 pm
by the_iron_duke
Thanks Davouthojo for the detailed information. You deserve a promotion - you should be officer corps at least by now, surely deserving of an honorary FoG generalship! Unfortunately the forum ranking system rewards post quantity not quality...

Interesting to hear the map selection mechanics. I've only been choosing mixed terrain, regardless of my chosen army, as a varied pot-luck selection. The explanation of the selection process explains why I rarely see some maps by doing this. In fact, I gave it a go today chose a different option and saw some unfamiliar maps. It seems I've been neglecting a tactical aspect of the game, so future opponents beware!

The user map upload option would be an interesting one if there is the right apparatus and will. I'd certainly give it a go.

Thanks again and another plug for the No. 1 FoG resource: http://fog-pc-wiki.wikispaces.com/

Re: Battlefield Maps

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:53 pm
by Turk1964
Gday Davouthojo
Thanks for explaining the whole map selection process ,very interesting.You have indicated that the T number next to the selected DAG army is the map number. Well T30 is the only number on all my battles and the Maps are definetly not the same.My last 20-30 games i have selected Open or very open and have won initiative but havent got an open map yet, In fact most of them i would consider the oppposite IE crowded.On most occasions my opponent wouldnt have wanted crowded either.Is this a bug and should i get the powers to be on to it?When i say open i would expect a few terrain features but not a map that looks like the surface of the moon or covered in vegitation.

Cheers Turk

Re: Battlefield Maps

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:00 am
by davouthojo
You are right on T30 - this used to change, maybe an add to the many bug lists. Maybe they disabled it when they kept adding maps rather than renumber them all.

The rankings of the maps appear to have been a bit....subjective? Not sure whether it was done by human eye after a beer, or a computer algorithm, there are some "open" maps that definitely are not.

Re: Battlefield Maps

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:35 am
by Turk1964
Thanks i thought it was only me getting T30 all the time. I think it is a bug as im definetly getting completly the opposite map i am after. Like i said i havent had an open map yet,if i have won initiative. So what ive startted doing is picking Mixed Default and that seems to be about what one would expect. I will send my message to Ian to see if it is a bug Regards Map selection.

Cheers Turk

Re: Battlefield Maps

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:37 am
by stockwellpete
I think that I have read somewhere that a new feature of FOG will eventually be that all the scenario maps in the game will also be available empty for DAG battles. That will be a very interesting feature when it materialises e.g. fighting with Saxons and Normans on the Bosworth battlefield, for example. :wink: