Server message - multiple turn downloads

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ericdoman1
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by ericdoman1 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:32 pm

Just tried ctrl, alt and delete and it does work on the multiplayer. In that you will start at the beginning of the turn.

The game I am playing in has ended, it was an accepted draw. That was the reason why I used the Task Officer

Now this has appeared

We note you are still consistently downloading your turns multiple times.
If you are having technical issues you need to contact our tech support team immediately via info@slitherine.co.uk.
A member of the team has been notified and your account will be locked out of the PBEM++ system until the issue is resolved.

I do hope that isn't the case. I have a number of games to play but no turns for me as such.

Fedem
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by Fedem » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:18 pm

Just a silly question Eric as Im not sure if I follow you. As you agreed a draw you use the task officer to kill the process of the game to see if restarts are possible?

ericdoman1
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by ericdoman1 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:35 pm

Yes Tim suggested a draw and so I moved a few troops. Stopped, hit ctrl alt and delete and it went back to the beginning again of the turn. Right at the very beginning, not at the point where I used the task officer. So I moved a few troops and finished the game. Tim then resigned on his turn. If that makes more sense. It just proves that it could be done.

Leonidas048
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by Leonidas048 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:38 pm

Well i done none of those things and like i said before i wasnt even aware of any types of cheating or changing the screen setup, and i still ended up getting that email. Unless someone else i played against did something and it affected both of us. Has anyone thought of that?

Fedem
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by Fedem » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:15 pm

ericdoman1 wrote:Yes Tim suggested a draw and so I moved a few troops. Stopped, hit ctrl alt and delete and it went back to the beginning again of the turn. Right at the very beginning, not at the point where I used the task officer. So I moved a few troops and finished the game. Tim then resigned on his turn. If that makes more sense. It just proves that it could be done.
Pretty damn easy huh? :(

Turk1964
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by Turk1964 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:30 am

Im sure Eric that Slitherine will not lock you out as you have explained yourself and what happened. Im sure they already know who the real cheaters are just waiting to pounce onthem :evil: Im sure there are a few nervous players out there who wil think twice before restarting and they know wo they are.I think another way is if you suspect someone either dont play them again or report them.I used to have a real problem with my old computer crashing whilst playing FOG and it would restart me from the begining.Thats when i realised people could do this on purpose and alter the state of the game and they are still doing it. I also think a small message should come up from Slitherine to warn you that your opponent has resarted multiple times .

IainMcNeil
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by IainMcNeil » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:25 am

You must not close down the game with task manager. You need to exit the game normally. The reason is this is exactly the kind of method someone would use to cheat and what the system is desigend to stop so you either have to play the game normally or you will be locked out of multiplayer. Unfortuantely this is not up for discussion! Apart from anything else you're likely to do damage to your PC if you regularly use this as a method to shut applications down.

ericdoman1
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by ericdoman1 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:45 pm

Iain

I think you have missed the point here.

Firstly players have been receiving messages and haven't used the task manager. There is an error in the works somewhere and you need to sort that out

Secondly I used it in a game that had been agreed upon as a draw. Just to see what will happen.

Rather than blaming me or other players. Why don't you start looking at yourselves and the system you have in place which seems to be making mistakes.

We all want some facility within the game to point out if people are cheating

When will this be starting.

Leonidas048
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by Leonidas048 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:47 pm

I ditto to the last message. That is what we are all carrying on about. This email was sent to us for no reason, never did anything. So there is a problem with your security system again. Even im not interested in keep closing my computer and starting again. Im just happy getting on with the game.

IainMcNeil
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by IainMcNeil » Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:27 pm

Hi guys

we've already replied on this and found and fixed the issue. It was related to viewing completed games. You wont get these messages again. My point is that using task manager to close the game is never going to be an acceptable way to exit this game or any other for that matter :)

Cheers

Iain

ericdoman1
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by ericdoman1 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:22 pm

OK

Just wondering if you can spot the difference between someody using the task officer to shut down the computer and be it an electrical fault, act of God.

Would it be possible please. If you do find players who are using the task manager, could it be announced to the community.

I am running 2 competitions at the moment (Companions Cup, Something New and Exciting), will prob be helping in running another competition and am playing in 4 other comps as well. As you have mentioned you now know if players are using the task manager and so I can bring these up in the comps I am involved with?

Thanks for your co-operation

Leonidas048
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by Leonidas048 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:16 pm

Thanks a lot, i ll be on my best behaviour. :lol:

ericdoman1
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by ericdoman1 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:34 pm

Iain

So can you give me a definite answer, please.

You have a system set up to track down any cheats. Yes or NO

Is it just tracking down players who have used the task manager. Yes or NO

Would it be possible to announce the fact that players, specifiyng user names, have been using the task manager on a link/post in Tech Direct. Yes or No

If Fedem ahd not probably brought this up, would we be even discussing this now. As it seems this could ahve been going on from day 1. Yes or No

You see we the players really enjoy this game and so we try and help you out as much as possible by improving the game due to those things that we spot. Please see my bugs report.

IainMcNeil
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by IainMcNeil » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:37 am

Hi Eric

We're not going to specify how it works for obvious reasons as it will encourage people to try and find work arounds (not that we can think of any!). We're not going to publish any info about other players. The system has proved very successful on the other game it was trialled on. The number of turns redownloaded dropped to almost zero. We're not planning to make any changes for now and when you get used to it you wont even notice it. I suggest you all just give it a try :) There isn't really much more to say for now. It doesn't really matter why you are redownloading turns - it gives an unfair advantage so has to be stopped. I understand this may cause issues for a very tiny minority (nobody so far in our experience but its theoretically possible), but for the vast majority this is the only fair course of action.

Any bugs should continue to be reported but may not be fixed until we get the new team up to speed with the engine.

Cheers

Iain

Fedem
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by Fedem » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:07 pm

Hi Ian,

One small question. Will the two players be informed if someone makes a re-download?

Tks

ericdoman1
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by ericdoman1 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:21 pm

Hi Iain

Thanks for the reply.

I am guessing as you didn't reply. These posts woud not be happeneing now if Fedem hadn't contacted you?

I think it would be important for both players and even the community to know about players who regularly download. If we don't the player(s) could continue doing this, unless you prevent them from playing anymore?

Also how would you stop something like this.

As far as we know, the cheating works only in a way that you can handle the rolls of the units on the field in the order you like. It has a fixed seed, which means you will know in advance what numbers are rolled in the order they are. This in turn means that the slitherine server computer must have actually rolled the result for it to apply, and the player has to remember the order of the results to use them to his advantage-Tiavals

This was brought up on my comp link.

Does this mean that somebody could change dice rolls?

Have you something set up to stop this as well.

Tiavals
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by Tiavals » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:35 pm

Eric, that is actually related to the cheating as far as I understand it. So it's already been dealt with. The dice rolls are always the same, but by restarting the turn, you can change the order your units fight, and therefore you can apply to poor dice rolls to the units you like, and the good ones to those you want. But since they now know when people restart, this can no longer be used.
I may be wrong about the fixed seed though, that's the picture I got from the posts explaining the exploit.

Fedem
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by Fedem » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:55 pm

Well, that's a knew one on how to use the exploit at least for me. Doing it that way demands much more time and insanity from my point of view. That kind of cheaters probably do not enjoy the game at all and should see a doctor.

As I mentioned on other threads you can use the replay of turns to do the following:

A)A) if you make a charge with any unit and it goes bad you can make the replay and do not make the charge. That also allows to try things as yr Pike example. Go for a suicidal charge and if it goes well leave it as it is. Could be an option if you want to outnumber an enemy unit etc.
If the suicidal charge goes bad.....replay and you do not do it.

B) you suddenly noticed that you made a bad move and some Bg ended for example showing their us to the enemy; you can restart and change the move.

Regarding B Batesmotel point it out that B) is allowed with Undo assuming that the BG that moved didn't shoot or impact enemy. It is only in games where Fog of War is enabled that undo is pretty much broken so you would need to do the restart to change a specific move. Seems to me that case B) is a game bug (when using Fog of War) rather than cheating.

Cheers.

kilroy1
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by kilroy1 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:28 pm

Dear kilroy,

We noticed you have downloaded some turns multiple times. If you are having any technical issues please report them to at http://www.slitherine.com/forum.
We'll do our best to resolve any issues and get you up and running ASAP.

Regards,

The Slitherine Team.
http://www.slitherine.com
I haven't tried what has been described here to allow someone, for whatever reason, to replay a turn. For the last couple of days when logging out of multiplayer I would "cancel" because it was taking so long to log me out. I didn't cancel the upload of the results of a game, I cancelled logging out and going back to the main menu. Can the servers tell the difference?

kilroy

Fedem
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Re: Server message - multiple turn downloads

Post by Fedem » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:49 pm

Hi Kilroy, I suppose that message should be received if you do re-downloads and not re-uploads. Also you shouldnt get it if you cancel the logg out or logg in if it takes to much time.

But lets wait what the savy guys say.

Cheers

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