MRR vs Carthage

Battle Reports & After Action Reports (AAR's)

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massina_nz
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MRR vs Carthage

Post by massina_nz » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:31 am

Well it's your decidely average general here again - this time against a seasoned and probably well-respected opponent - deeter.

Recently I've been issuing open paired challenges to various scenarios - one in particular, the starter battle from ROR - MRR vs Carthage led me to encounter deeter. Both of us thumped the Carthaginians in this battle - which prompted deeter to say "This battle is imbalanced - I'll show you how it's done with the Carthaginians", and thus here we are, and I'm in command to the Romans, not my favourite army, but one I've had some success with in the few games I've played them. In fact I'm playing Carthage in season five of LEOG, so there's some irony here in playing against them. When I've won as the Carthaginians it's through being cunning and not being brutal. So it wil be interesting to see how deeter plays them.

So it's a 500pt battle with FOW and double moves on.

I win initiative, and it looks like we've both gone for inspired generals given the initiative scoring. I've actually gone against my usual norm of three generals and instead gone for one inspired general and an Aitolian ally, to boost my heavy cavalry and get some good MF. What do I expect to see opposite me? Well a resonable number of Punic cavalry and a fair number of veteran African spearmen.

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Hmm, which map to choose?, bottom-left was used in my first AAR, Romans don’t mind rough terrain too much, but I like the top-left map as it allows me to put my ally on one side with it’s MF & cavalry together.

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My legions are placed in the open right of the map with the Triarii in reserve, a couple of Numidian cavalry, and an elephant behind as a small surprise. My font line is a mix of average armoured Principes and average protected Hastati, I’ve gone for quantity over quality.

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Aitolian Ally on my left, predominately some good MF Thureophoroi
Last edited by massina_nz on Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

massina_nz
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Turn 1

Post by massina_nz » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:23 am

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Interesting comments from deeter. I don’t personally choose superior troops by default, as once they go below 50% they are useless anyway. But my superior Galatian warband I play often always seems to have huge staying power, even when losing. Those improved cohesion tests and combat dice re-rolls for superior troops may well be worth it. Anyway as said above, I’m going for quantity over quality.

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I spot 29 units, presumably some of the remaining 13 are in the second rank, are there any in the forest to my left? No great surprises, veteran African spearmen and the Campanian Roman-style foot.

What’s the plan? Well I’ll probe on the left with my allied troops, and attempt to envelope the main Carthaginian battle line with my wider frontage. Whilst keeping the Punic cavalry at bay. They are bound to be more numerous than mine. I don’t advance much as I want to see if I can swing my left flank over.

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Allies advances on the left, I really want to see what is in the Punic second line

Morbio
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Post by Morbio » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:28 am

I've played this scenario against Deeter so many times! I know exactly what he will do with those Spearmen and the Campanian foot :) I won't spoil the fun for you though by telling you :twisted:

JocaRamiro
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Post by JocaRamiro » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:32 pm

I look forward to scene 2.

I have a sentimental attraction for Carthege, but stuggle to make its armies sucessful in battle. Teach me how!

massina_nz
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Post by massina_nz » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:33 pm

Morbio wrote:I've played this scenario against Deeter so many times! I know exactly what he will do with those Spearmen and the Campanian foot :) I won't spoil the fun for you though by telling you :twisted:
Thanks, I think :?

massina_nz
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Post by massina_nz » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:35 pm

JocaRamiro wrote:I look forward to scene 2.

I have a sentimental attraction for Carthege, but stuggle to make its armies sucessful in battle. Teach me how!
Watch what deeter does, it will be illuminating for both you and I, and hopefully others. I don't really expect to win. But I'm hoping that by playing a way better player than myself it may be useful to others.

massina_nz
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Turn 2

Post by massina_nz » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:31 am

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I show my ignorance of swordsmen+, but against those veteran African spearmen there is no POA for me, in impact combat I'll be +1 POA but hey have re-rolls, whilst in melee combat my Hastati will be down a POA due to inferior armour.

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The Carthaginians refuse their left flank, which hints at what? Can’t really tell until I can see behind his front line. My guess is it’s the Theban ploy of punching through one of my flanks.

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A Spanish MF arrives to contest my left flank.

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I inch my way closer.

Morbio
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Re: Turn 2

Post by Morbio » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:57 am

massina_nz wrote:I show my ignorance of swordsmen+, but against those veteran African spearmen there is no POA for me, in impact combat I'll be +1 POA but hey have re-rolls, whilst in melee combat my Hastati will be down a POA due to inferior armour.
You'll also be down a POA because of Spear vs Sword, so you really need to make a dent at impact. If you should get disrupted in impact (worked our what the Companians are there for yet?) then you are toast :twisted: Overall it doesn't look good for the Romans :(

TheGrayMouser
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Post by TheGrayMouser » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:10 pm

Hmm, methinks your army is il-balanced to deal w the Carthos, especially when lead by Deeter.
Although I understand the case for quantity over quality, you only have 44 BP's. Personally i think allies are not a good option for MRR, especially at 500 AP's, especially the Aitolian one, Im guessing those 6 mediums and 2 lancers plus leader cost close to 100 aps and really arnt going to do to much. 2 lancers isnt going to give you cavalry superiority but cost alot.... Most importantly, you best weapon system, the legions has been stipped down by having them all average and some protected.

I have used MRR alot and my own general purpose 500 ap army looks like this
4x armoured roman cavalry
8 average armoured legions
8 superior armoured legions
*this gives one the compulsary 2 superior AND 2 Elite triarri plus 8 velites or so
1 pac
2 superior xtraordinarri
a couple cretans and or numidian light cavalry and 3-4 light spear mediums

this gives an army just over 40 bp's , the only weakness is the leadership, 1 field Cnc and one troop commander, or really rough going terrain. However, as the legions are your strike force and likly will be in the center, it is relativley easy to keep them in command .

That being said, it looks like you have a pretty good position vs Deeters army, good luck!

massina_nz
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Re: Turn 2

Post by massina_nz » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:09 am

Morbio wrote:
massina_nz wrote:I show my ignorance of swordsmen+, but against those veteran African spearmen there is no POA for me, in impact combat I'll be +1 POA but hey have re-rolls, whilst in melee combat my Hastati will be down a POA due to inferior armour.
You'll also be down a POA because of Spear vs Sword, so you really need to make a dent at impact. If you should get disrupted in impact (worked our what the Companians are there for yet?) then you are toast :twisted: Overall it doesn't look good for the Romans :(
Nope haven't worked that out yet

Jernau77
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Post by Jernau77 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:09 pm

Just chiming in to say that I really enjoy your AARs. I think good, easy to understand AARs are one of the best ways to learn how to play, and I find yours top notch.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the battle develops. Good luck!

massina_nz
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Post by massina_nz » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:19 pm

Well the actual game is complete I'm just several turns behind in posting the results

massina_nz
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Turn 3

Post by massina_nz » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:32 pm

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But with my troops facing primarily Offensive spears that Swordsmen+ POA won't count.

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The Carthaginians refuse their left flank, which hints at what? I can’t really tell until I can see behind his front line, although I spot one MF unit in the second line. My guess is that since his line is shorter he will attempt to crush one wing of my battle-line, with local superiority.

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In response I move slightly closer – if you look to the right of the map the Spanish light cavalry are looking very isolated. I would have expected the Punic cavalry to be more aggressive

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The scutarii will have an advantage over my MF in the impact combat due to being impact foot, after that my numbers should help.

massina_nz
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Turn 4

Post by massina_nz » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:32 am

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Looks like my left flank will just be a holding action – but I have diverted the Punic cavalry away from the main battle. So I send my troops into defensive positions into the woods hexes.

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Carthage looking to negate their lesser numbers by using an echelon attack

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I start to wheel my line to suit. I don't have to just stand there and not react. It's particularly useful that my troops are drilled so they can adjust their formation relatively easily. I still want to outflank the Carthaginian line. The price I pay is that one of my units anarchies due to the close proximity of the African light troops. All my light foot are set to always evade, so it's hard to keep the African skirmishers away. But if I didn't set them to always evade, then they could easily be pinned and killed. It's either always evade or never evade for me, I never let the AI decide.

massina_nz
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Eye Candy interlude

Post by massina_nz » Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:32 am

Just though I'd post some pictures of a MRR DBA army I painted last year - I think it's in theme :)

Hope I haven't broken any rules in posting pics of non-Essex miniatures on the site....although I do have a lot of Essex miniatures

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batesmotel
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Re: Eye Candy interlude

Post by batesmotel » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:27 pm

massina_nz wrote:Just though I'd post some pictures of a MRR DBA army I painted last year - I think it's in theme :)

Hope I haven't broken any rules in posting pics of non-Essex miniatures on the site....although I do have a lot of Essex miniatures

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Image

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Very nice looking figures although you need to practice taking picture of them some more since some are a bit out of focus. Are the shields decals/transers or painted?

Essex has no offiicial ties with Slitherine as far as I know. Certainly many manufacturers' figures are in pictures posted in the TT forums.
....where life is beautiful all the time

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Re: Turn 4

Post by batesmotel » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:32 pm

massina_nz wrote:Image

Looks like my left flank will just be a holding action – but I have diverted the Punic cavalry away from the main battle. So I send my troops into defensive positions into the woods hexes.
You have enough points tied up in your ally that I don't think you can afford to just play defensively with them. You need to push there and win before your main line loses to the higher quality Carthaginian HF. With your ally general there plus the number of troops you have you need to be aggressive. The Thureophoroi can do ok in the open against mounted since they do have spears although they need to work together to utilize the numric advantage and to coordinate with your lancers.

Chris
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massina_nz
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Re: Eye Candy interlude

Post by massina_nz » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:50 pm

batesmotel wrote:
Very nice looking figures although you need to practice taking picture of them some more since some are a bit out of focus. Are the shields decals/transers or painted?
<snip>
They are Gripping beast 25mm (28mm) figures - my eyes are too old to paint 15mm figures now, The decals are the LBM ones. (Little Big Man studios).

And the camera work is from my cellphone, which explains the blurring of the pictures. I'll post a pic of my Dominate Roman army in the next couple of days.

massina_nz
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Turn 5

Post by massina_nz » Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:37 am

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Carthaginian attack begins to widen. Note the MF in the second rank giving support to the two units to their front.

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Pretty static here, as more Punic cavalry are set to arrive.

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I surround the marauding Spanish light cavalry in my rear and attack it – next turn should be dead, but my cavalry desperately need to get back on the legionaries right flank

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Hastati that was impetuous last turn has now been routed, and I haven’t left it a gap to rout through – note also how the two velite units set to evade – didn’t!

At least my new battle line is now one turn from completion.

massina_nz
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Turn 6

Post by massina_nz » Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:31 am

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My Velites that ‘locked’ next to a Punic unit were still were able to evade away? Weird. However my routing Hastati bursts through two of my units, disrupting them, great, I thought the Hastati would have just died on the spot rather than burst through. So the Veteran African Spearmen can advance next to my main line and ignore my 2 POA for being impact troops and they will get 1 POA in my turn as they ignore my swordsmen ability [A]. One Campanian unit charges in and is fragmented , a MF IF charges in and locks [C] and another Campanian unit anarchies and is isolated [D]

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I’m now outnumbered on my left flank. In hindsight deeter would have been better to send his MF to this sector and use his cavalry to expose my flank at the main battle instead.

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Note that my Velites at the bottom of the map are now set to not evade as they are too close to map edge. My troops now threaten the Carthaginian flanks.

I target the fragmented unit [A] at good odds and combat goes against me, damn! – But I am redeemed because my disrupted unit actually wins it's combat – phew!

I then have to execute a melee combat against the MF at [C]. The odds are currently even,. Undecided if I should charge my other unit in first (at even odds), I go with the melee combat first and disrupt the enemy MF. So I go in with impact charge, at good odds (due to the disruption) and fragment him – that worked out well. But on reflection I should have charged into impact combat first as this would at least given me a single dice advantage in the melee combat due to having a supporting unit.

I then charge two units into Campanian foot, only to get a disruption – both were at even odds.

I also have routed the Spanish light cavalry behind me, and my cavalry are now returning to their station on the right – phew, that might have been nasty if deeter had sent the full force of Punic cavalry at my flank, but they did nothing, and half of them have gone over to the forest on my left.

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