Companions Cup

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ericdoman1
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Update

Post by ericdoman1 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:15 am

Round 1 ROTW vs North America

Game 1 (very crowded) Thracian(ROTW) – jonno 68/76 vs Classical Indian(NA) - iversonjm 83/79
Game 2 (crowded) Thracian(NA) – TGM 27/77 vs Skythian(ROTW) – Massina-NZ - 6/73
Game 3 (mixed) Classical Indian (ROTW) – rexhurley 52/47 vs Skythian(NA) – Todd645 39/67
Game 4 (open) Alexandrian Macedonian(NA) – Deeter 6/48 vs Late Archie Persians (ROTW) - tullius 64/62
Game 5 (very open) Alexandrian Macedonian (ROTW) – Fedem 25/50 vs Late Archie Persians (NA) - batesmotel 49/49

North America 2 (217 bps) vs ROTW 2 (204 bps)

Europe vs UK and Ireland

Round 1 Europe vs UK & EIRE

Game 1 (very crowded) Classical Indian (UK&Eire) – stockwellpete 70/64 vs Thracian(Europe) - cavehobbit 49/74
Game 2 (crowded) Classical Indian(Europe) – Finir 25/63 vs Skythian (UK&Eire) - Eric - 11/75
Game 3 (mixed) Achmaenid (UK&Eire) – maharg25 vs Macedonian(Europe) - dvorkin - started
Game 4 (open) Achmaenid (Europe) – hidde 15/50 vs Macedonian (UK&Eire) - ianiow 2/55
Game 5 (very open) Thracian (UK&Eire)- Triarius vs Skythian (Europe) - Boores - ?

Europe 1 (83bps) vs UK & Eire 0 (89bps)

Bps are casualties inflicted. So as you can all see it is incredibly close.

massina_nz
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Turn 6 - Skythians (ROTW) vs Thracians (NA)

Post by massina_nz » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:24 am

Image

On the left flank gaps start appearing in both armies, with the Skythians still managing to get a few rear attacks.

Image

The Thracians have broken through their countrymen allied to the Skythians, on the far right however it looks bleak for the Thracians as they are ground down.

massina_nz
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by massina_nz » Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:51 am

Game ended in my next turn

Massina_nz (Skythians) 43/73 v TGM(Thracians) 77/77

Fedem
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by Fedem » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:17 am

Well done mon Capitaine :)

jonathan.powles@gmail.com
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by jonathan.powles@gmail.com » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:30 am

deeter wrote: Thanks for the game, Tulius.

Deeter
Indeed. And thanks for the lesson - it was a consumate performance. It felt like I was in a swordfight armed with a stick of candyfloss.

jonno
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by jonno » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:56 am

I have created a forum post on how to create annd animated image.
It also tells how to post an image to the forum.

I someone could please review and let me know if you can understand what to do.

thanks, Jon

ianiow
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by ianiow » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:12 am

Image

13 turns of relentless shooting is taking its toll on the Macedonians. The Persian cavalry won almost every combat against enemy pike and spears on hidde's last turn and my turn was not much better. I managed to get three rear attacks on him but the frontal stuff was not going at all well. My hope for the rest of the battle is that I have a large reserve of fighting troops to replace my crumbling front line. This battle is very much in the balance.

Game 4 (open) Achmaenid (Europe) – hidde 25/50 vs Macedonian (UK&Eire) - ianiow 21/55

ericdoman1
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Very very close

Post by ericdoman1 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:15 pm

Round 1 ROTW vs North America

Game 1 (very crowded) Thracian(ROTW) – jonno 68/76 vs Classical Indian(NA) - iversonjm 83/79
Game 2 (crowded) Thracian(NA) – TGM 77/77 vs Skythian(ROTW) – Massina-NZ - 43/73
Game 3 (mixed) Classical Indian (ROTW) – rexhurley 52/47 vs Skythian(NA) – Todd645 39/67
Game 4 (open) Alexandrian Macedonian(NA) – Deeter 6/48 vs Late Archie Persians (ROTW) - tullius 64/62
Game 5 (very open) Alexandrian Macedonian (ROTW) – Fedem 25/50 vs Late Archie Persians (NA) - batesmotel 49/49

North America 2 (252 bps) vs ROTW 3 (254 bps)

Europe vs UK and Ireland

Round 1 Europe vs UK & EIRE

Game 1 (very crowded) Classical Indian (UK&Eire) – stockwellpete 70/64 vs Thracian(Europe) - cavehobbit 49/74
Game 2 (crowded) Classical Indian(Europe) – Finir 25/63 vs Skythian (UK&Eire) - Eric - 11/75
Game 3 (mixed) Achmaenid (UK&Eire) – maharg25 vs Macedonian(Europe) - dvorkin - started
Game 4 (open) Achmaenid (Europe) – hidde 25/50 vs Macedonian (UK&Eire) - ianiow 21/55
Game 5 (very open) Thracian (UK&Eire)- Triarius vs Skythian (Europe) - Boores - ?

Europe 1 (102bps) vs UK & Eire 0 (95bps)

Congratulations on ROTW for a win but I think we can all see, having three games will make it even more interesting.

Just a thought if there is a future Comp Cup is it worth just dicing for initiative and then choosing terrain? I have a sneaky feeling that the same maps are going to be used most of the time.

TheGrayMouser
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by TheGrayMouser » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:38 pm

Sorry to be a bummer here but I am finding myself disapointed that the rear charge bug/exploit is being used in this competition.

I assumed that those aware of the bug just wouldnt do it. I bear no ill will and recognise that there are players with the frame of mind that , hey, if the game engine allows it then you can do it.

Anyways, its my own fault that I didnt make my own position clear about this up front, which is:
The rear charge exploit is bogus, I refuse to utilize it and going forward would apreciate it not being used against me.

Also, It is also quite clear that ALOT of people arnt even aware of this exploit, and it aint cool that some players in this comp dont even get make a conscience choice for using/not using it.

ericdoman1
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by ericdoman1 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:20 pm

TGM

It was used agst me a while back and yes I have used it. I copied it from another player (I am not going to name names). As I have mentioned I have contacted the designer who has done nothing really. I have pointed it out to a few players, as well.

Thing is you shouldn't be able to charge into the rear of somebody unless you are directly behind their rear. Does this mean if you are not directly behind a battle groups flank and can still charge it and so countering missile fire, better factors. Do we stop that?

If it goes against the TT rules should we therefore stop everything that is OK in this game but impossible or illegal in the TT game? Going backwards except light troops, interpenetrations.

We need to discuss this guys

Captains, please pass this message onto all players and or players reading this pass this onto your captains. We will need to have a democratic vote.

I am OK either way. Some players could do it and then say it was an accident, what do you do then?

Carry on using it for round 1but again we need to vote. Captains just collect the yes or no from players and then just copy and paste onto this. If it needs to be discussed, check out the forum and add comments there.

Once more best to contact keithmartinsmith, the designer or tech support

deeter
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by deeter » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:34 pm

In my recent game with tulius, a cav unit of his charged an MF bg in the open from rear. It was treated as a normal charge because he either didn't know this exploit or chose not to use it. Had he used it, my MF would certainly have been routed.

This and the blocked breakoff exploits are certainly unsporting and should be frowned upon. It would appear that the top players are at the top in part because they have discovered these quirks while newer players have not.

There are plenty of other "tricks" such as forcing an evading unit in a certain direction so that it's blocked by its friends, etc.
While not neccessarily a bug, it is a trick. That's why I started a thread for players to post their tricks sand exploits so that everyone has access to the same knowledge.

Deeter

stockwellpete
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by stockwellpete » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:35 pm

TheGrayMouser wrote:Sorry to be a bummer here but I am finding myself disapointed that the rear charge bug/exploit is being used in this competition.

I assumed that those aware of the bug just wouldnt do it. I bear no ill will and recognise that there are players with the frame of mind that , hey, if the game engine allows it then you can do it.

Anyways, its my own fault that I didnt make my own position clear about this up front, which is:
The rear charge exploit is bogus, I refuse to utilize it and going forward would apreciate it not being used against me.

Also, It is also quite clear that ALOT of people arnt even aware of this exploit, and it aint cool that some players in this comp dont even get make a conscience choice for using/not using it.
Well said that man! I totally agree. :D I don't use it either - but if people want to use it against me then that is a moral decision for them really. :wink:

ericdoman1
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by ericdoman1 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:13 pm

So if we stop the dodgy rear charges, the dodgy flank charges, noticed nobody has mentioned anything about this so I guess that is OK, the break offs (I think I may have found that quirk and exploited it, apologies). In the TT game if you are unable to break off more than 1 inch then you lose a cohesion level.

OK most of these maps we fight on weren't really historical, most battles were fought on relative open plains for obvious reasons, compared to the maps we have. Although we do not really know for sure every single battle that has taken place. We prob only know a very small fraction to be honest

So open maps, no illegal rear charges, no illegal flank charges, no prevention of break offs, include all of these quirks on deeter's or other forums.

Just line up and charge into everything, even though you will lose. You may as well have a dice each, roll, whoever has the highest wins. I know that is going too far but where does the buck stop.

hidde
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by hidde » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:08 pm

Didn't realise there was a fatwa out on the use of certain moves and "tricks".
I have never played TT so the rules in those books aren't sacrosanct to me.
In my humble opinion it's better to use it until the bug is recognised and fixed by Slith.
But I'll do as the majority decides. If it's decided to forbid it just make sure everyone is aware of the fact.
It would appear that the top players are at the top in part because they have discovered these quirks while newer players have not.
I get it...all the best player are cheaters. Is plain to see...

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Re: Companions Cup

Post by stockwellpete » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:37 pm

What is an illegal flank charge, Eric? :?

rexhurley
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by rexhurley » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:46 pm

todd645 wrote:The score is in...

US Team Skythians (todd645) - 39/67 ROTW Team Indians (rexhurley) - 52/47

Great game mate!
A point to note after being duly pummelled with terrain and POA that failed we have gone to social game with me giving my list a tweek, now with a lot closer in bp and six points into the game only 2 bp's seperate us, bawaa thanks for the learning toddie and beware my future foes :mrgreen:

rexhurley
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by rexhurley » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:49 pm

ericdoman1 wrote:So if we stop the dodgy rear charges, the dodgy flank charges, noticed nobody has mentioned anything about this so I guess that is OK, the break offs (I think I may have found that quirk and exploited it, apologies). In the TT game if you are unable to break off more than 1 inch then you lose a cohesion level.

OK most of these maps we fight on weren't really historical, most battles were fought on relative open plains for obvious reasons, compared to the maps we have. Although we do not really know for sure every single battle that has taken place. We prob only know a very small fraction to be honest

So open maps, no illegal rear charges, no illegal flank charges, no prevention of break offs, include all of these quirks on deeter's or other forums.

Just line up and charge into everything, even though you will lose. You may as well have a dice each, roll, whoever has the highest wins. I know that is going too far but where does the buck stop.

Hi ya sorry I have only read the last two messages of the thread, but in my opinion if you want to play tabletop, play FOG tabletop, this is FOGD and while based on the the tabletop game is its own beast, you cannot bring in tabletop rules in place where quite a few players (and I'm a veteran and national champ in a variety of formats but not Ancients in TT games) are unaware of th tabletop format, if that is the case you can expect my immediate resignation from the event.

Cheers

rexhurley
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by rexhurley » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:53 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
TheGrayMouser wrote:Sorry to be a bummer here but I am finding myself disapointed that the rear charge bug/exploit is being used in this competition.

I assumed that those aware of the bug just wouldnt do it. I bear no ill will and recognise that there are players with the frame of mind that , hey, if the game engine allows it then you can do it.

Anyways, its my own fault that I didnt make my own position clear about this up front, which is:
The rear charge exploit is bogus, I refuse to utilize it and going forward would apreciate it not being used against me.

Also, It is also quite clear that ALOT of people arnt even aware of this exploit, and it aint cool that some players in this comp dont even get make a conscience choice for using/not using it.
Well said that man! I totally agree. :D I don't use it either - but if people want to use it against me then that is a moral decision for them really. :wink:
The same stuff happens in TT games boys, its about learning the rules, game format and then utilising this to ensure you win that immediate fight, if this si considered cheating then I suppose the same could be said for the West using night vision and air technology to win battles in real life along with every other commander in time. if people are uncomfrotable with this then I think your in the wrong part of the hobby....just an opinion of course :wink:

ericdoman1
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by ericdoman1 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:10 pm

Rex

Exactly.

That is the point I am trying to make in a roundabout sarcastic way.

We are playing FOG-digital which is completely different to the TT game.

You play the game as it has been designed.

The quirks or dare I say on ocassions an element of skill is part of any game.

The rear charge thing may not even be a bug. As I had mentioned I have pmd the designer of the game and he didn't notice it. Possibly he didn't notice it because it's part of the game.

Rex, I will not accept your resignation by the way. If that is the case Todd will lose all of his friends:)

Look guys shall we just play the bloody game as it is. When SLitherine sorts it out then so be it.

As long as nobody is hacking into the system to make all of their troops elite ha ouzi fighters.

Pete go to the game itself and then help, "How to.." and then rear, flank etc. It shows the positions you should be in to make a flank or rear charge. However it doesn't really go into detail about what is a legal or illegal flank rear chareg. I thought it would be similar to the TT system, in that you have to behind their flank or rear (see the lines) to initiate a flank rear charge. Maybe because it isn't clear that is why the designer did not see anything wrong with the "dodgy" rear charge.

TheGrayMouser
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Re: Companions Cup

Post by TheGrayMouser » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:10 pm

ericdoman1 wrote:So if we stop the dodgy rear charges, the dodgy flank charges, noticed nobody has mentioned anything about this so I guess that is OK, the break offs (I think I may have found that quirk and exploited it, apologies). In the TT game if you are unable to break off more than 1 inch then you lose a cohesion level.

OK most of these maps we fight on weren't really historical, most battles were fought on relative open plains for obvious reasons, compared to the maps we have. Although we do not really know for sure every single battle that has taken place. We prob only know a very small fraction to be honest

So open maps, no illegal rear charges, no illegal flank charges, no prevention of break offs, include all of these quirks on deeter's or other forums.

Just line up and charge into everything, even though you will lose. You may as well have a dice each, roll, whoever has the highest wins. I know that is going too far but where does the buck stop.
Those items aint the problem Eric, its the rear charge exploit thats being addressed.


So..... should have known this would be a powder keg, but the cats out of the sack, as it should be.

Hidde, I cant speak for Deeter but my guess maybe his vent has to do with the same frustration that I have at this point. It is clear that this exploit has been around a while and a significant # of players never knew about it, but an unknown # have and apparently have been using it;

I wonder why, with the wiki and all the other tips threads and discussions, this has not once EVER been mentioned until 3-4 weeks ago when gaztrix brought it up.....
I think, geez, how come players using this never said to me during a game , hey Mouser, you could have gotten free rear hits multiple times during that match , but you didnt do it, why not? are you not aware ? Nope , not once
It really gives one a crappy feeling that youve been duped, and considering many of us have been playing this game for over two years now, and some were in the "know" and some were not... yah, feels crappy

Anyways , whatever, the past is the past and sure, everyone will have a difference of opinion on what is acceptable or not.

Any further talk should be about going forward , ie is it going to be allowed or not, period. Its easy NOT to do , btw, and the chances of a "mistake" are non existant.

Now excuse me, I need to hop over to the LOEG thread to suggest renaming it to the LOHCP League of Hyper-Competative Persons :wink:

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