The Mod Community wishes, suggestions and opinons

A forum to discuss custom scenarios, campaigns and modding in general.

Moderators: Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design

nikivdd
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The Mod Community wishes, suggestions and opinons

Post by nikivdd » Tue May 22, 2012 7:47 am

VPaulus wrote:I've seen a lot of ideas spread all over the forum lately how things could evolve in terms of modding.
So it's best to have a proper thread where you can write all your ideas, suggestions, wishes and opinions about Panzer Corps the game and modding.
Please note that we won't discuss here what kind of mods we would hypothetically like to see or about any specific mod at all.
It's more about how Panzer Corps could help supporting the mod community.
Mods can give a boost to the (sales of the )game but no effort is done to place them in the spotlights. In many other threads you can read what players would like to play or see in the game, but appearingly don't find their way into the scenario design section.
Last edited by VPaulus on Tue May 22, 2012 2:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: To give coherehnce to this new thread after merging posts
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VPaulus
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Re: Dwight's Camo Sprayshop

Post by VPaulus » Tue May 22, 2012 12:21 pm

nikivdd wrote:Mods can give a boost to the (sales of the )game but no effort is done to place them in the spotlights. In many other threads you can read what players would like to play or see in the game, but appearingly don't find their way into the scenario design section.
You've to understand that a lot people of people don't want to use mods, because they are afraid of messing with the system. And that Nico is the great majority of the people. ANd you cannot fight against that.
Maybe one day things can evolve like in BA, where you can download and install some of the mods inside the game.

rezaf
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Re: Dwight's Camo Sprayshop

Post by rezaf » Tue May 22, 2012 12:56 pm

Yeah, it's totally normal for a majority of players to never touch mods. But this majority is much larger still if no effort is done to either communicate with the modders (usually via a community manager of sorts) or to promote mods through the game itself - like Civ5 did, and from what I understand BA as well.

If Slitherine really wanted to, I don't think it'd be too hard to make some sort of managed process for handling mods. Think having a section in the launcher or on the main screen (kinda like the "Did you know?" windows in many app) where new mods would be highlighted.
To get on there, your mod would have to be complete, have a certain quality level and be in a format with which PzC could one-click enable it.
A custom file format and some sort of functionality like that of GME would have to be included in the game, but I made something similar for DCS, so I know it can be done without too much hassle.
To encourage modders to get their stuff up to the desired quality level, there could be a mod-of-the-month, and when you'd be selected, you could get, I dunno, a free PzC DLC or a $5 discount on your next purchase. Something that will not ruin Slitherine/Matrix, but could be seen as a token of appreciation.
Until/unless there's something like that, I think the only way to improve the headcount around here is to just sell a sh*tload of PzC copies - SOME of those will end up browsing the modding forums, a few of those will download and check out some mods, fewer still will create something of their own.
_____
rezaf

MickMannock
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Re: Dwight's Camo Sprayshop

Post by MickMannock » Tue May 22, 2012 1:11 pm

rezaf wrote:If Slitherine really wanted to, I don't think it'd be too hard to make some sort of managed process for handling mods. Think having a section in the launcher or on the main screen (kinda like the "Did you know?" windows in many app) where new mods would be highlighted.
To get on there, your mod would have to be complete, have a certain quality level and be in a format with which PzC could one-click enable it.
A custom file format and some sort of functionality like that of GME would have to be included in the game, but I made something similar for DCS, so I know it can be done without too much hassle.
To encourage modders to get their stuff up to the desired quality level, there could be a mod-of-the-month, and when you'd be selected, you could get, I dunno, a free PzC DLC or a $5 discount on your next purchase. Something that will not ruin Slitherine/Matrix, but could be seen as a token of appreciation.
Until/unless there's something like that, I think the only way to improve the headcount around here is to just sell a sh*tload of PzC copies - SOME of those will end up browsing the modding forums, a few of those will download and check out some mods, fewer still will create something of their own.
_____
rezaf
Totally agree with you rezaf.

At the very least, it would be nice if the devs would open up some sort of communication with the modding part of the community. For example have a thread where people could ask questions and leave suggestions and have them answered or commented on. The lack of communication can be disheartening. As much as when no one replies to ones thread. :)

VPaulus
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Re: Dwight's Camo Sprayshop

Post by VPaulus » Tue May 22, 2012 1:40 pm

I still don't think it as easy at it might appear... specially for the cosmetic mods which act upon other mods (or not).
There could be conflicts. In a solution like that the cosmetic mods would to have to stay away, or be incorporated by the campaign modders if they wished or used only with vanilla edition.
That would take out the power to the user which mods to combine with... but I think it would be the only solution.

What about creating a thread about how modding Panzer Corps should evolve?

MickMannock
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Re: Dwight's Camo Sprayshop

Post by MickMannock » Tue May 22, 2012 1:49 pm

VPaulus wrote:I still don't think it as easy at it might appear... specially for the cosmetic mods which act upon other mods (or not).
There could be conflicts. In a solution like that the cosmetic mods would to have to stay away, or be incorporated by the campaign modders if they wished or used only with vanilla edition.
That would take out the power to the user which mods to combine with... but I think it would be the only solution.

What about creating a thread about how modding Panzer Corps should evolve?
For a small developer like this, no nothing is easy or fast. The resources are few, I understand that.

And yes, there should be a seperate thread for all this.

chief
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Re: Dwight's Camo Sprayshop

Post by chief » Tue May 22, 2012 1:59 pm

This is just my opinion. I prefer Mods that don't require installers, so that I can install all .wav etc. by hand, I have found that this approach has had less disastorous results in my games than any other. I realize that those who are tech savvy won't agree. Those of us not blessed by this new fangled computer age have problems. Case in point: Just installing the Panzer corps in 2 machines, in XP everything installed where it wanted to go, turned out it wasn't right. Thanks to moderators here we resolved it. XP machine splits my game into 2 directories, works but it don't make sense. All my previous game installs use one directory ???
Just an old mans opinion. Don't you dare try to take my game back, it's mine you hear !

OK I forgot my Win 7 machine puts things in different folders, but works fine. From what I've read it shouldn't be in Programs (x86) but that's where mine landed and it works. So if it works I leave it alone. Someday I'll be brave and install the GME but before I do that I'll have plenty of back-up. Keep up the good work gentlemen, believe it or not I'm still a happy gamer.

flakfernrohr
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Re: Dwight's Camo Sprayshop

Post by flakfernrohr » Tue May 22, 2012 2:33 pm

rezaf wrote:Yeah, it's totally normal for a majority of players to never touch mods. But this majority is much larger still if no effort is done to either communicate with the modders (usually via a community manager of sorts) or to promote mods through the game itself - like Civ5 did, and from what I understand BA as well.

If Slitherine really wanted to, I don't think it'd be too hard to make some sort of managed process for handling mods. Think having a section in the launcher or on the main screen (kinda like the "Did you know?" windows in many app) where new mods would be highlighted.
To get on there, your mod would have to be complete, have a certain quality level and be in a format with which PzC could one-click enable it.
A custom file format and some sort of functionality like that of GME would have to be included in the game, but I made something similar for DCS, so I know it can be done without too much hassle.
To encourage modders to get their stuff up to the desired quality level, there could be a mod-of-the-month, and when you'd be selected, you could get, I dunno, a free PzC DLC or a $5 discount on your next purchase. Something that will not ruin Slitherine/Matrix, but could be seen as a token of appreciation.
Until/unless there's something like that, I think the only way to improve the headcount around here is to just sell a sh*tload of PzC copies - SOME of those will end up browsing the modding forums, a few of those will download and check out some mods, fewer still will create something of their own.
_____
rezaf

"EXACTOMUNDO!!!!!!!!", Samuel Jackon from "Pulp Fiction". Tell it as it is Rezaf, I agree totally.
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rezaf
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Re: Dwight's Camo Sprayshop

Post by rezaf » Tue May 22, 2012 3:22 pm

VPaulus wrote:I still don't think it as easy at it might appear... specially for the cosmetic mods which act upon other mods (or not).
There could be conflicts. In a solution like that the cosmetic mods would to have to stay away, or be incorporated by the campaign modders if they wished or used only with vanilla edition.
That would take out the power to the user which mods to combine with... but I think it would be the only solution.
It's not that hard, really. The simplest approach would be to always look in a mods folder structure first for ANY file, and only if it isn't found there, the file from the vanilla game is used. So, in order to replace something, you'd merely have to put that file into your mod's file structure and be good to go. There can be no conflicts using this approach.

Conflicts can appear when you use multiple mods, and the whole issue can get a lot more complicated - or not, depending on how conflicts are handled. I think diff-handling with individual files and merging should be out of the question.
If mod A conflicts with mod B, either modder has to provide a version that's compatible with the other mod - this shouldn't be the job of such tool or of Slitherine/Rudankort.
Many things can be done to make this possible, but they often require user input a non-tech-savvy user will struggle with.

But I wouldn't bother with these thoughts at all and just implement the approach without mod-stacking. This only needlessly complicates things - if you want to include some other modders stuff, ask him for permission and use it in your mod.
Or, maybe, there could be a simple "Reference" system, in which you can reference a different mod title as prerequisite, and you can't run a mod without the set prerequisite(s).
This shouldn't be too hard to do.
Still, I'd favor the simplest possible approach for starters, if need be, it can always be improved upon later, but remember, the goal of this option should NOT be making life easier for modders, the goal should be to make life as easy as possible for the end user (that possible wouldn't bother with mods to begin with otherwise).
VPaulus wrote:What about creating a thread about how modding Panzer Corps should evolve?


I actually wondered about my sanity for a while when I couldn't locate my previous post in the DCS thread, but I managed to locate it looking at the "View your posts" option.
Thanks for splitting this discussion into a new thread VPaulus, as so often you went beyond the call of duty.
flakfernrohr wrote:"EXACTOMUNDO!!!!!!!!", Samuel Jackon from "Pulp Fiction". Tell it as it is Rezaf, I agree totally.
I'm glad we can get to an agreement on this one Flak. :D
_____
rezaf

deducter
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Re: The Mod Community wishes, suggestions and opinons

Post by deducter » Tue May 22, 2012 3:37 pm

I think from a financial standpoint, there is in fact every reason for the developers to actively engage and support the modding community. The reason is that PzC is ultimately still a wargame, and even though it is easier to get started with as far as wargames go, the number of people interested in this genre is not that large. That said, there is potential for the developers to cement themselves as the leaders of wargaming and capture that market share and ensure a steady stream of profit for many years. The thing about supporting modding is that you potentially get a lot more content for a relatively small investment of time.

I think it would be nice to hear a developer say, "I tried the Italian Campaign by Uhu, and I thought anyone who wanted a real challenge could have fun with that," or "I wanted a challenge for the DLCs without playing on Manstein, and I got it with deducter's mod, here are the things I liked about it and didn't like about it." And so on for various other modding projects.
Last edited by deducter on Tue May 22, 2012 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

VPaulus
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Re: The Mod Community wishes, suggestions and opinons

Post by VPaulus » Tue May 22, 2012 4:17 pm

In case of the future iPad users they won't be able to play mods if there isn't something like an official mod manager built in the game.
I still wonder if modding is an argument for selling or not for an iPad user... For a PC user I don't doubt that it is... even the casual player, usually, likes to know if a game is moddable or not.
So with the announcement of Panzer Corps porting to iPad I wonder how this will be dealt.

MickMannock
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Re: The Mod Community wishes, suggestions and opinons

Post by MickMannock » Tue May 22, 2012 6:22 pm

Speaking from an egoistic point of view, PzC is soon reaching the point of how I dream of it to be. I've added some scenarios myself to enlarge the vanilla campaign and I've downloaded skins to make my corps more appealing to look at. And if the Afrika Corps is what I hope it will be the game will be almost perfect.

The only thing I lack and want fixed are the heroes. I don't want random names, I want historic names. As it is now, it's not possible to mod real names into the game since it randomly draws and matches a first name with a last name. I hope some day in the future the devs will adress this issue.

Other than that, I don't think it's wise to tamper with the scope of the game. I also like more detailed and hardcore wargames, but PzC is a lighter version of a wargame and doesn't demand as much of me as a player compared to other wargames. And I think that is what makes PzC unique and it should stick to it's niche.

rezaf
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Re: The Mod Community wishes, suggestions and opinons

Post by rezaf » Tue May 22, 2012 8:08 pm

No offense MickMannock, but since you're already posting here, you're obviously not the intended audience for the improvements we've been discussing. :wink:
_____
rezaf

MickMannock
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Re: The Mod Community wishes, suggestions and opinons

Post by MickMannock » Tue May 22, 2012 8:24 pm

rezaf wrote:No offense MickMannock, but since you're already posting here, you're obviously not the intended audience for the improvements we've been discussing. :wink:
_____
rezaf
The title says "The Mod Community wishes, suggestions and opinions".

I took that literally. ;)

airbornemongo101
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Re: The Mod Community wishes, suggestions and opinons

Post by airbornemongo101 » Tue May 22, 2012 8:30 pm

I've made my request.

I'm gonna wait and see what happens w/ the patch notes
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Re: The Mod Community wishes, suggestions and opinons

Post by Chris10 » Tue May 22, 2012 9:14 pm

The most important thing would be that installing and playing a mod doesnt cost any more effort then to throw it into MyGames/Mods and go..this would even the most hesitating person allow to approach mods in the first place but when stuff goes whith copypasting this over here and generic mod enabler over there the averag PC user can and will not bother with this...
therefore I repeat it again and again..
sry..I copypaste cause Iam to lazy to write it over and over again :)
chris10 wrote:
Rudankort wrote: .......but what help exactly can we give in relation to these? I was talking more about making the mods more exposed to the player community in general, to people who never visit this and other forums in the first place (and such players are a majority).

saying that the mod support should be increased making the exe always looking in the mod folder first and only drag from the main game what it doesnt find there..this would enable complete conversion,user ui customization,overlays etc etc and a generic mod enabler would be completely obsolete for PzC which could boost the amount of people willing to look into mods.
apart from this there could be some choosen mods (only 100% finished stuff) in an extra section of the forum which is endoresed thru offical statements...not simple UI mods or alike but really finished campaigns and scenarios...polished stuff, this would even encourage modders to be more exact and deliver better mods...there could be a voting from time to time which mods to promote to the choosen section..
as well there could be an extra release like with Civilization IV Beyond the Sword which only consisted in User Scenarios...the real knightly accolade for a modder...I imagine this could really work if there are enough first quality mods aound :D...

4kEY
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Re: The Mod Community wishes, suggestions and opinons

Post by 4kEY » Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:57 pm

I would like more custom unit packs which include SFX, animations, and offsets - much like the Drache, Flammpanzer II & III, and Panzerjaeger.

I also want a Tiger tank :cry:

flakfernrohr
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Re: The Mod Community wishes, suggestions and opinons

Post by flakfernrohr » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:54 am

4kEY wrote:I would like more custom unit packs which include SFX, animations, and offsets - much like the Drache, Flammpanzer II & III, and Panzerjaeger.

I also want a Tiger tank :cry:
A person can take Mongo's SS mod and make any group of units you want to put into a game and also with the Equipment editor, you can also make them as powerful or as weak as you want. The flammpanzers I have not figured out to get the SFX matched or done. But obviously it isn't hard for others, so why me :cry:
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VPaulus
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Re: The Mod Community wishes, suggestions and opinons

Post by VPaulus » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:18 am

flakfernrohr wrote: The flammpanzers I have not figured out to get the SFX matched or done. But obviously it isn't hard for others, so why me :cry:
Look at Bebro's USMC campaign. I was able to make the animation and the sound for his models. I've done also for DMP.
And I'll do it for AK, which will bring flamingos. In fact I think I'll finish tomorrow RSM Redux AK.

4kEY
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Re: The Mod Community wishes, suggestions and opinons

Post by 4kEY » Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:51 pm

flakfernrohr wrote:
4kEY wrote:I would like more custom unit packs which include SFX, animations, and offsets - much like the Drache, Flammpanzer II & III, and Panzerjaeger.

I also want a Tiger tank :cry:
A person can take Mongo's SS mod and make any group of units you want to put into a game and also with the Equipment editor, you can also make them as powerful or as weak as you want. The flammpanzers I have not figured out to get the SFX matched or done. But obviously it isn't hard for others, so why me :cry:
Dwight, that is not what I meant.

What I mean is when someone creates a new unit, not already in the game, and includes with it SFX, animations, and offsets, OR kindly refers to any existing SFX, animations, and offsets that might match. The units I mentioned above even included stats. Two of them are Puma's, and the other chris10's, and so far, though I may be wrong, they are the only custom units with anything supplementing the icon.

For my own flammpanzer I used the pioniere animation, so it looked like it had a flamethrower and a machine gun. I would have liked the MG34 /42 from the grenadier, but I cannot plice or edit animations. I did, however, create a custom attack SFX blending the pioniere flamethrower with the MG34 from the grenadier, using Goldwave.

Learning how to add/edit units in the EQP file was the reason I registered in the forum in the first place. I wound up finding that my windows 7 had a block on altering certain files, and I had to completely redo all my security settings before I could do anything with the Editor.

If you would like my custom attack SFX, I can email it to you, but I think the ones in VP's RSM are more fitting. For animations, check out chris10's icon viewtopic.php?f=147&t=33186

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