1.04 Feedback

Magpius · Post by **Magpius** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:11 pm

October 5 1940
France fell previous turn, but French commanders, retired into the 'force pool' show available in 9 turns.
Also, 2 turns prior to fall 4 french garrison units were unable to be deployed, despite empty hexes around Lyons and Bordeaux.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:43 am

Does the Commander disappears from the queue at any point?

You are only allowed to deploy 1 unit per city per turn so this may be the issue?

vypuero · Post by **vypuero** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:16 pm

It may have been because they were cut off from Paris. That means that they have half supply, and you can't deploy then.

syagrius · Post by **syagrius** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:06 pm

In my first allied game with 1.04 I have noticed a couple of things. The Axis is doing fine in Russia, however it still doing terrible in Africa and the Mediteranean. I have slaughtered the Italians near Tobruk, sink a battleship and a destroyer and now took sicily. The Italians should send reinforcements to their African army early when entering the war.

vypuero · Post by **vypuero** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:10 pm

I presume you are playing the AI? There is no way to do that without a specific scripted event, which can easily be countered because it will be known to the player, hence making it no better than not doing that. Unfortunately without the human element the AI needs to stick with basic, easy to understand strategies, and they are better off losing North Africa and helping in Russia. In fact many humans do that, too.

syagrius · Post by **syagrius** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:15 pm

Yes I understand this. I am of course playing the AI. Historically the Italian took a beating from the British in Africa and that is why the Afrika Korps came to the rescue. Its just a little sad the Axis let go the Mediterenean theater so soon. Besides this, the patch looks promising.

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:34 pm

I've playtested CeaW a number of times against both the AI and a human player. My experience with North Africa is that it's very very hard for the Axis to survive there for a long time.

The problem is that Britain can send units to Egypt (naval and land) before Italy even joins the war. If Britain sends a few BB's and some land units (the motorized corps, the units from Canada etc.) then Italy will be at a disadvantage even the first turn they join the Axis. Britain can the strike and move towards Tobruk and use their superior naval units to prevent Italian transports from sailing from Italy to Libyan ports.

It's possible for Italy to run with all their units except the garrison in Tobruk towards Tripoli and make a last stand in the rough hexes east of Tripoli (El Agheila). Then transports can sail from Italy to the Palermo port and then directly to the Tripoli port. That means the chance of being stopped en-route is lower. Italy can then send air units as well to Africa near Tripoli. With some German help with land and air units it's possible to retake the lost territory.

Trying to remain near Tobruk is just a stupid plan. The British units are so superior they can kill one Italian unit per turn until all units are destroyed. So it's better to flee before the Allied units arrive. Trying to engage the British navy is not easy either. The British have more BB's and even a CV and sub. So the Italians will often lose and run for port to repair losses. So they can't send transports easily to Libya.

In even game I've played against a human player the Italians are defeated in 1941 or earlier in Africa. I've been both the Axis and Allied player so it's not because one side plays much better than the other.

This could be made easier if you allowed a unit to embark and disembark at the same turn if they disembark into a friendly port city. That means an Italian unit in Palermo can embark the transport in the Palermo port and sail to the Tripoli port and disembark directly into Tripoli without having to be vulnerable 1 turn at sea. If you disembark into a non port city hex you have to do this at the start of a turn before you've moved (as before).

With such a method it's easier for Italy to send Italian and German units til Libya if you send them to Tripoli. If you go all the way to Tobruk you will be vulnerable one turn because you can't get from Taranto or Palermo to Tobruk in one turn. That's OK. So you can be at the front quickly if you take a chance, but you will get to Libya safely if you go to Tripoli (maybe the smart place to disembark an expensive German armor unit).

So the only rule change you need to do is to allow a transport who ends a turn in a friendly port to disembark into the city (only) on the SAME turn. Is that possible to implement?

syagrius · Post by **syagrius** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:44 pm

I agree with what your are saying. However when I play Axis my Italians are able to destroy the Birtish, take Suez canal and then the M-E oil fields. The key for the Italians should be to clear the Med of British ships, which is something I manage to do when playing Axis by concentrating the Italian sub, two battleships and destroyer against one British ship at a time.

I also agree that it would be easier for the Italians to stand in Tripoli than Tobruk. Historically the Italians had a superiority of 10 to 1 at the start of the African campain. I think the Italian armor unit should be in Africa when the Italian enters the war, and maybe another infantry corps.

vypuero · Post by **vypuero** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:11 pm

I always win in my games in NAF as axis or as allies - even if I lose elsewhere. I put a lot in ME last game then the axis almost pulled off sealion! be careful.

firepowerjohan · Post by **firepowerjohan** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:49 pm

If Germany send 2-3 Air Units to help out Britain will have trouble in Africa.

syagrius · Post by **syagrius** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:02 pm

Indeed. However the Italians have a tac bomber and the AI is not using it at all in Africa.

Stryder · Post by **Stryder** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:35 am

firepowerjohan wrote:If Germany send 2-3 Air Units to help out Britain will have trouble in Africa.

why not have the option for the player to toggle on/off the Afrika Corp script so that Rommell and associated units appear in Libya at some random turn after Italy enters the war... The Axis human player could have an alternate (for balance) to toggle on/off so that Montgomery and extra forces appear in Egypt if Tobruk falls or just at some random interval..... that way if you want these features, check the box if not then don't.. would it be hard to create this?

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:02 am

The system does not use scripts like this at all. This is to prevent lots of special cases that interact and create bugs and allow us to modify the AI behaviour as a whole rather than tweaking each individual script. This does make it harder to deal with specific issues like this though.

syagrius · Post by **syagrius** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:44 pm

It seems the Germans are still not very good at defending France and Paris. I landed troops in southern France and took Cherbourg at the beginning of 1942 and have Paris encircled. The US just entered the war so I did all this with British troops. The germans had infantry corps in Brest, Cherbourg, Marseilles, Lyon and Paris and that's it. No "masse de manoeuvre", no armour, not even a fighter or bomber unit, they must be all on the Russian front. Does the Axis AI is programmed to defend France "en force" for 1943 or 1944? Landing in France so early in the war I should have been slaughtered!

vypuero · Post by **vypuero** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:20 pm

what difficulty level Syagrius?

syagrius · Post by **syagrius** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:47 pm

vypuero wrote:what difficulty level Syagrius?

I was thinking playing with moderate advantage to Axis however I tought that with the patch the AI would get tougher, so my game is at slight advantage Axis I think.

Stryder · Post by **Stryder** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:43 pm

iainmcneil wrote:The system does not use scripts like this at all. This is to prevent lots of special cases that interact and create bugs and allow us to modify the AI behaviour as a whole rather than tweaking each individual script. This does make it harder to deal with specific issues like this though.

Convoy ships appear out of the ether... why can't a mixed force group of forces with a commander appear at some predetermined turn with a random modifier of +/- 4 turns?

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:33 am

It's not impossible just a lot of work and it has numerous knock on effects that are almost impossible to quantify. What happens if that area is already overrun by the enemy, what if there is no space to deploy, what if the nation controlling the units has already surrendered, how does the AI know what to do with these troops or against them etc - there are many issues it would throw up.

neilhammond · Post by **neilhammond** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:21 pm

syagrius wrote:It seems the Germans are still not very good at defending France and Paris. I landed troops in southern France and took Cherbourg at the beginning of 1942 and have Paris encircled. The US just entered the war so I did all this with British troops. The germans had infantry corps in Brest, Cherbourg, Marseilles, Lyon and Paris and that's it. No "masse de manoeuvre", no armour, not even a fighter or bomber unit, they must be all on the Russian front. Does the Axis AI is programmed to defend France "en force" for 1943 or 1944? Landing in France so early in the war I should have been slaughtered!

This is my experience as well. I play with the AI set at moderate Axis advantage, v1.4. At this level the Russians are usually hard pressed but the overall allied strategy is for the Russians to hang on while the Brits/US land in france in '42 and work through and take Berlin in '44. As I've indicated in another thread, it's easier to beat the AI on moderate level as Allies rather than as Axis.

Interestingly, I find the Axis AI get a production surge in '43, just as they seem to be running out of troops. Not sure why this is.

firepowerjohan · Post by **firepowerjohan** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:27 pm

No production surge, it is that industrial tech will increase your war economy so perhaps Germany got a few new tech levels