Medieval Welsh and Scottish.
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Medieval Welsh and Scottish.
Can anyone give me their assessment of the effectiveness of the Medieval Welsh Army, in particular their spearmen?
Is it a case of they make great auxiliaries but weak as an army in themselves or can they be a force to be reckoned with on their own account? Is there fun to be had with a Welsh Army?
The Scottish Common Army interest me too. There is quite a commitment to painting lots of figures for a shieldwall/phalanx so it would be nice to know whether or not this army is a bit "one dimensional" (and thus battles being a bit stereotyped) even with Highland and French allies?
Is it a case of they make great auxiliaries but weak as an army in themselves or can they be a force to be reckoned with on their own account? Is there fun to be had with a Welsh Army?
The Scottish Common Army interest me too. There is quite a commitment to painting lots of figures for a shieldwall/phalanx so it would be nice to know whether or not this army is a bit "one dimensional" (and thus battles being a bit stereotyped) even with Highland and French allies?
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Re: Medieval Welsh and Scottish.
The spearmen are weak but numerous. The army as a whole (if you are referring to the Owain Glyndwr revolt army) can be surprisingly effective if you can bring its numbers to bear.Quintus wrote:Can anyone give me their assessment of the effectiveness of the Medieval Welsh Army, in particular their spearmen?
Certainly, but it is not an army for beginners.Is there fun to be had with a Welsh Army?
It is certainly a bit one dimensional, but quite effective. It depends what floats your boat I guess.The Scottish Common Army interest me too. There is quite a commitment to painting lots of figures for a shieldwall/phalanx so it would be nice to know whether or not this army is a bit "one dimensional" (and thus battles being a bit stereotyped) even with Highland and French allies?
Having recently used the Medieval Scots army at Burton it is fairly one dimensional - a lack of any light troops can be an issue. But overall it is a fairly interesting army to use.The Scottish Common Army interest me too. There is quite a commitment to painting lots of figures for a shieldwall/phalanx so it would be nice to know whether or not this army is a bit "one dimensional" (and thus battles being a bit stereotyped) even with Highland and French allies?
I Initially thought the army would be fairly boring - spearwall, march forward, repeat... but since normally you have to be fairly reactive, then you are always attempting to re-deploy the half of your army which your opponent doesn't attack (unless they attack along the line which is normally a bad move)
The Longbowmen add a bit of spice and you can always go for the Froggy allies which can add a bit of interest. It can be quite a challenge at 800 pts to use effectively, but it is possible.
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For what its worth, I think its is pretty good in period. The medium foot spearmen give you an advantage in terrain. I've found MF Off Spear suprisingly good (while they are winning!)
Big groups (10's), with support with a IC (Glyndwr ?) floating around. Your opponent will have to attrit you to death.
Just don't expect to resist a Knightly charge for long!
Big groups (10's), with support with a IC (Glyndwr ?) floating around. Your opponent will have to attrit you to death.
Just don't expect to resist a Knightly charge for long!
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The later medieval Welsh army is essentially a border marcher army rather than a development of the older Welsh armies. There were no Welsh armies for about 100 years prior to the revolt of Owain Glyndwr.
In DBM a single Welsh list is stretched to cover a very long time period and at the later end of the period I feel the old DBM list is just wrong in so many ways. The late DBM Welsh list is a good list from a game point of view but rather poor in terms of history. I hope the new look later Welsh list is more reasonable.
One of these days I will actually put the army on the table. I really should I suppose.
In DBM a single Welsh list is stretched to cover a very long time period and at the later end of the period I feel the old DBM list is just wrong in so many ways. The late DBM Welsh list is a good list from a game point of view but rather poor in terms of history. I hope the new look later Welsh list is more reasonable.
One of these days I will actually put the army on the table. I really should I suppose.
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I noticed you got your fantasy Welsh into the FOG list!hammy wrote: In DBM a single Welsh list is stretched to cover a very long time period and at the later end of the period I feel the old DBM list is just wrong in so many ways. The late DBM Welsh list is a good list from a game point of view but rather poor in terms of history. I hope the new look later Welsh list is more reasonable.
I had to write it to get it therehazelbark wrote:I noticed you got your fantasy Welsh into the FOG list!hammy wrote: In DBM a single Welsh list is stretched to cover a very long time period and at the later end of the period I feel the old DBM list is just wrong in so many ways. The late DBM Welsh list is a good list from a game point of view but rather poor in terms of history. I hope the new look later Welsh list is more reasonable.
Seriously though the DBM list is trying to get an 11th or 12th century Welsh army and assume it didn't change significantly by the 15th. I would like to think the list in Storm of Arrows is a good stab at the forces available to Owain.
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As has been said before, the fantasy element of the DBM list is not the French allies. They really existed. (And would have fought too if Owain wasn't an Inert general. Oops, sorry, wrong rules).hazelbark wrote:I noticed you got your fantasy Welsh into the FOG list!hammy wrote: In DBM a single Welsh list is stretched to cover a very long time period and at the later end of the period I feel the old DBM list is just wrong in so many ways. The late DBM Welsh list is a good list from a game point of view but rather poor in terms of history. I hope the new look later Welsh list is more reasonable.
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Wrong. The fantasy is we keep getting to call Hammy's Welsh the fantasy welsh, because he charges the red cape with certainty just as if you told the Greeks that Macedonians aren't....rbodleyscott wrote: As has been said before, the fantasy element of the DBM list is not the French allies. They really existed. (And would have fought too if Owain wasn't an Inert general. Oops, sorry, wrong rules).
Quite possibly I would be the first to admit there are issues with the DBM list and that I took advantage of them. I would like to think that the FoG Welsh list is far more plausible for an army of the revolt.hazelbark wrote:Wrong. The fantasy is we keep getting to call Hammy's Welsh the fantasy welsh, because he charges the red cape with certainty just as if you told the Greeks that Macedonians aren't....rbodleyscott wrote: As has been said before, the fantasy element of the DBM list is not the French allies. They really existed. (And would have fought too if Owain wasn't an Inert general. Oops, sorry, wrong rules).
I have yet to try it on the table but that might change tomorrow