Too little prestige!!

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godfather
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:03 am

Too little prestige!!

Post by godfather » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:33 am

I am playing the GC and starting with GC'39. After I win a scenario with a DV the prestige points are barely enough to bring my core units up to strength! I am finding it hard enough to capture objectives much less other cities etc that will give me extra prestige. Is the lower prestige a way of avoiding steam rolling the Poles or do I need to capture more hexes? Anybody else having this issue? Maybe I just suck :D

fliegenderstaub
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
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Re: Too little prestige!!

Post by fliegenderstaub » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:40 am

At the start of the Grand Campaign you don't have that much prestige, especially when you are playing at "Rommel" difficulty. But if you don't have that many losses and win DVs, you will normally get along fine with the prestige during '39.

Reasons for low prestige are f.e. too many losses, lots of costly upgrades, buying expensive new equipment, overstrengthening units (which is much more expensive after the new patch) and of course the difficulty level, especially "Rommel" ( :wink: ). And of course the newly introduced prestige soft cap, although this should not be a problem during '39 as far as I know.

I am not the "avoid losses at all cost"- player and I am no strategical genius either. But usually my core will be saved after the GC 39 with about 3500 prestige (Rommel) to about 9 to 10.000 (General or Field Marshal).

Oh, one thing: Limited or no combat random in my opinion increases your prestige a bit in the long run, because you are able to plan much better and don't have to deal with unforeseen combat results, which might cost you additional prestige.

What difficulty level are you playing on and how does your core look like?
...and like the once-mighty Mahi-Mahi, you will end
up on a poo-poo platter in the Tikki Hut of life! -Al Bundy -

godfather
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:03 am

Re: Too little prestige!!

Post by godfather » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:00 am

I am playing the mid level difficulty colonel I think. I have 6 inf (2 pioneers in that mix), 4 Tanks, 3 arty, I 88, 2 or 3 fighters, and 4 tac bombers. I am going off memory so might be a bit different. after I finished the scenario in Poland where I had to blow up trains I only had 360 prestige!!

timek28
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
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Re: Too little prestige!!

Post by timek28 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:48 am

Yeah elite replacements mid scenario are a very bad thing for prestige. Come to it any kind of reinforcements are bad during the scenario. At first I didn't understand how some players where able to pull off so much prestige during the game (without soft cap). Some where saying insane numbers like 200k prestige during GC. Then again if one rarely replaced units during the battle, played really well (attack with support most of the time), and also upgraded with care (same tree upgrades - well at least until TIger appears), then he could save prestige.

Like I said before, AI has very predictable behavior. It will try to bomb your artillery, so protect it with flaks at all times. Also it will try to go for your unprotected bombers, so protect them at all times. Don't put your tanks in close terrain without support and don't expose your infantry in open. That is basically it. Any major losses come from the fact that you didn't do one of the above, or that you have unbalanced core.

Core structure is very important. It is important that you have balanced battle groups. Usually 2, but in larger cores there could be 3 or 4. That is several tanks (3-5), few infantry units (say 2-3), enough artillery to protect them (say 3), enough AA to protect them say 1-2. Then there go fighters 2-3, and bombers 2-3. AT and recon are optional units in this group. Of course this is kind of ideal situation. The reality is that you probably won't have enough slots for this (in the beginning you could have just one battle group of this structure). But it is very important to balance it this way, otherwise AI will try to exploit your weaknesses - such as lack of air defense, lack of ground support, etc.

Tarrak
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Re: Too little prestige!!

Post by Tarrak » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:05 am

Your core setup looks OK to me. I personally prefer less bombers and more ground troops, especially artillery, at this stage of the war but your core is certainly not off balance.

You need to find where are you losing most of your prestige. Are you reinforcing a lot of units during the scenario? If yes you are either taking to much losses or are reinforcing units to early. This is often, at least for me, the major source on prestige loss. To minimize losses try if possible always to suppress enemy unit with artillery before attacking, especially if it's heavily entrenched. Sometimes if the enemy is to heavily entrenched it's better to wait an additional turn, bring more artillery in position and create a mass attack situation to minimize losses. Of course sometimes you got to rush and don't have the time for the luxury but if you can afford to wait take your time. There is no additional award for finishing a mission a few turns earlier then needed. Try to conquer as may non victory hexes if possible. Every of them yields additional prestige and stops the enemy from potentially using it as a staging point for a counterattack. Don't get to greedy tho. If a non victory hex is to heavily defended rather skip it. Just use your best judgement here.

You need to fight the tendency to top up a unit that is down to f.e. 7 strength. It is still capable of fighting. Reinforcing it between the scenarios is a lot cheaper. If a unit get damaged to badly to keep fighting check if you really still need it or if you can afford to let it fall back and save yourself the prestige. Especially at the end of the scenario, where your troops all converge on the last few victory hexes you can often afford to rotate a few damaged units out.

Keep mind the experience cap in the DLCs. Especially early your unit easily reach the cap and can't earn anymore experience. It may be worth to use green reinforcements on them to save prestige as they will have time to recover the lost experience. This saves you some more prestige.

timek28
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
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Re: Too little prestige!!

Post by timek28 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:23 am

Tarrak wrote: You need to fight the tendency to top up a unit that is down to f.e. 7 strength. It is still capable of fighting. Reinforcing it between the scenarios is a lot cheaper. If a unit get damaged to badly to keep fighting check if you really still need it or if you can afford to let it fall back and save yourself the prestige. Especially at the end of the scenario, where your troops all converge on the last few victory hexes you can often afford to rotate a few damaged units out.
.
This here is the key. In the past I was obsessed with need for all my units to be full strength. But as Tarrak said, units can fight if they are 8 or 7 SP. Ok if they are 5 or less maybe it would be wise to pull them back. But the fact is that as scenario end nears you probably won't need all of your core units to converge on last victory hex or two. So basically replace only the units you think you will use in attack, or don't replace at all if your unit is experienced and down to 7SP. It is very nice to see all units with 10SP mid battle, but it is much nicer to have lots of prestige in between battles when it counts the most.

fliegenderstaub
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
Sergeant - Panzer IIC
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Re: Too little prestige!!

Post by fliegenderstaub » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:38 am

Maybe you will have a look at deducter's videos. He uses his own modified equipment file. The prestige income with his mod is even less.

Maybe that might help you a bit and gives you some ideas. Good luck!
...and like the once-mighty Mahi-Mahi, you will end
up on a poo-poo platter in the Tikki Hut of life! -Al Bundy -

shawkhan
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
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Re: Too little prestige!!

Post by shawkhan » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:27 pm

The more expensive the unit, the more expensive its replacements.
I use Gebirgsjagers all through Poland w/o transport. The most bang for the buck you will find in the game. They are quite cheap to replace.
Airplanes are nice but they are expensive. I never have more than 2 fighters and 2 bombers in Poland.
Green replacements during deployment are Free. In 1939 and 1940, the experience limit is so low, there is no need to waste prestige on experienced replacements. You will reach the experience cap quickly anyway.
Using artillery to back up your frontline units is the best loss reduction technique in the game. Advancing ahead of your artillery support is the greatest tactical mistake you can make.
Use your fighters defensively whenever possible. Position them near your artillery but out of sighting range of the enemy. Never bomb w/o fighter escort.
The biggest mistake I see in your core is that you have more bombers than fighters.
German tanks are essentially worthless in 1939 and 1940. Check the stats, recon units are actually better than any other armor with the possible exception of the Pz38. They Are definitely cheaper, more mobile and capable of recon movement, allowing defensive retrograde movement when needed.
1939 and 1940 are the years to use Stukas. These are your main tank killers. Do not fight unweakened enemy armor with your own armor. It seems everyone has better armor than the Germans in 1939 and 1940.
When I first started this game I used to think going into Russia with 20k prestige was impossible. In my current campaign I expect to finish 1942 with between 80-90k prestige. Even that is not close to what the dedicated players can manage. With the advent of the Tiger/Panther and the Fw190A there is no such thing as too much prestige if you want some of these shiny new toys.
Viele Gluck!

captainjack
Colonel - Ju 88A
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Re: Too little prestige!!

Post by captainjack » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:02 am

I'm most of the way through DLC 42 at General (almost at Stalingrad), with about 55 units on the list and around 45000 prestige. Most units are 3*, though I have a few at 4* and some newer ones (or badly commanded ones) at 2 or less.

Most of my prestige saving approaches are similar to Shawkan's - and most have been learnt from reading other people's advice. With a small air force, you will usually have enough ground forces to cope with one or two badly damaged units pulled back and hiding well behind the lines. I have fair bit of arty - 2 Stug3, two 21cm nebelwerfers with +1 range - both were 17cm guns until the 21cm nebel werfer became available, three 15cm (two with +1 move hero) and the captured 10.5 from Warsaw, and they are pretty much first on the map along with the two (now 3) 88s and the Jadgpanzer 1 (now a Marder), which can do a lot of damage to tanks at 3 or 4* .

Infantry without move heroes mainly use trucks - cheaper to reinforce - and when I buy a new unit it's usually standard infantry without a truck - fast enough and in good terrain, they can defend OK to free up a decent unit from garrison duty. If they get experience I can upgrade them to something else.

I think the main trick I have learnt is being willing to delay attack. Units that move next to enemy in the past would have attacked straight away, now I am more willing to wait a turn or two until the back up arrives, suppression is blasted or bombed out or re-supplies are made if low on ammo or fuel. The other (and possibly most important) trick is to read the briefing really well to see what you have to do and focus on that. Then look hard at the map to see what kind of terrain you have so you can plan your paths to the targets. And, keep checking Control + L after you attack to better understand what went on in the combat.

It took failures, embarrassments and reading of AARs, Beta test reports and advice from the real experts (people who play at Rommel and get upset if they lose more than 10 strength pionts in a battle) before this started to make sense, but it is good when you start to succeed where you used to trip over.

So good luck and keep trying.

Dmurphy238
Corporal - Strongpoint
Corporal - Strongpoint
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Re: Too little prestige!!

Post by Dmurphy238 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:13 pm

Some things I have learned:
1. Grab up as many cities/towns as practicable (in addition to those that are objectives) to add to prestige.
2. Keep an eye on your objectives and how many turns you have. Don't rush and get a unit killed or maimed if you have turns to spare.
3. When choosing new units, keep one eye looking to the future so that you can minimize costly switching of families within a unit class. i.e. paying full price to switch a Pz IV to a Pz III and then full price to switch back to a Pz IV.
4. If playing at a certain level is making you miserable (really miserable...not the challenging kind of miserable), drop down a level. Learn lessons there and then you can always crank up the level of difficulty later.
5. I love this game! Putting it on the Ipad is the greatest thing thing since sliced bread...no, actually, it is better!

BiteNibbleChomp
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
Posts: 3227
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Re: Too little prestige!!

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:07 am

I mentioned 110k prestige, not 200k, timek. And that was on GC42 on Sergeant, where you can get hordes of cash from all the hexes of Stalingrad.

- BNC
Creator of American Civil War mod for Strategic Command WWI!
Discuss here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4504986
Download: http://www.mediafire.com/file/tj4t11z3ttl142w/SCACW.zip/file

timek28
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
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Posts: 459
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Location: Novi Sad, Serbia

Re: Too little prestige!!

Post by timek28 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:34 am

BiteNibbleChomp wrote:I mentioned 110k prestige, not 200k, timek. And that was on GC42 on Sergeant, where you can get hordes of cash from all the hexes of Stalingrad.

- BNC
I wasn't thinking on you man :) I think it was Deducter or somebody else :)

But still awesome success. I believe that that much prestige comes from very calculated play, almost no reinforcements during the combat and very careful upgrades and core structure.

Right now I'm experimenting with no reinforcements during the combat. It is tough. At least in early years, but unless my units fall below 5 SP I'm not buying reinforcements. Also realizing
that auxiliary units are cannon fodder is kind of a big thing.

BiteNibbleChomp
Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
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Re: Too little prestige!!

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:47 am

I usually reinforce when units hit 6 or 7. Normally on Lieutenant I get around 15k by the start of USA (vanilla campaign), but spend all but 1.4k by the end of it. Each DLC scenario puts me roughly 2.5k behind the previous one, so hopefully I will have enough cash when I get to Sealion45. (used cheats to copy core and prestige into 44w following 43e, as I was fed up with the USSR having 150+ units in each scenario.

In WWI you won't have anything after Cambrai, so capture enough in Michael and Paris 18, or death will be your reward for reaching UK18

- BNC
Creator of American Civil War mod for Strategic Command WWI!
Discuss here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4504986
Download: http://www.mediafire.com/file/tj4t11z3ttl142w/SCACW.zip/file

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