Steam Testing

[SephiRok]

The steam readme already has updated info on save game location:

The Steam version stores saved games in a different location to support the
Steam Cloud:

* Steam:
"<installation directory>/Cache/cloud/"

Due to multi-platform syncing limitations, the Steam Cloud system requires all
files and directories to have lowercase names. Failure to comply may prevent the
Steam Cloud from working properly and may clear all files from the cloud. Please
be very careful if you modify the contents of this directory manually,
especially on case-sensitive filesystems like those normally found on Linux.

Admin rights should not be a problem.

There is not much I can do to influence AV behavior. I didn't change anything for 1.3.5. Someone probably just told them it's not a valid report and they whitelisted it. Crappy solution since they do it only for that particular executable and it changes on updates, but that's the most anyone can do (and you're encouraged to do it, so maybe they learn ...).

How can you add '-' to a unit's name to start with? It's not allowed and will likely lead to issues and crashes.

[KaiFiebach]

How can you add '-' to a unit's name to start with? It's not allowed and will likely lead to issues and crashes.

The problem is, that many Geman unit types already have a '-' in their names, like "Avenger-Panzer" or "Goliath-Mech". If a player then tries to rename this type in the unit workshop, he fails without knowing why. The '-' is a regular character in German language and part of many words, so it should be allowed.

btw: It is really great to have Pandora in my Steam library now. Thanks on this occasion!

[SephiRok]

Good point. I'll fix that. Thank you.

[SephiRok]

Updated steam build with fixes for unit renaming, some friends invites/joining issues and other minor stuff.

Steam friends list invite issues I hope to fix later on:
* Connecting through friends list takes forever if it fails.
* Connecting through friends list doesn't use the master server for TCP punchthrough.
* Visible panels aren't always hidden when connecting to an invitation.
* Accepting an invite while in the world screen doesn't go back the the lobby.

[mara]

So, after experiencing my first invasion,

1) Every one of my cities got ion stormed. This was crippling. Lasting 6 turns was brutal. I'm already losing a war with DA and Imperium, this sealed the deal. I couldn't build any more units without them being damaged to defend my cities. those that were holding my frontline cities were wiped out from the extra damage.

2) the Cloud overlay effect that starts after the cinematic is really distracting.

3)The Arctic costal start really crippled me, I was starved for food nearly the entire time. The growth buildings would have made this even worse.I honestly can't remember the last time I had a temperate or desert start. I'm using the Continent style world on temperate.

4)The invasion really does need to be optional, especially for new players.

5)Against the DA, as far as I got before they demolished me completely, the invasion forces seemed to be wholly ineffective. Being Ion stormed as the weakest faction only made the problem snowball. The only unit causing severe damage that I saw (I played a few turns after my defeat) was the mothership.

6) The mothership is impressive, is it a one off or a respawning unit through portals?
7) Is infestation clearable?

Edit: I reloaded a save, and watched for a while after I lost. It took the AI 33 turns to clear out the invasion. it didn't even slow down the factions already in the lead.

[mara]

Bug in 1.4.0: Resets advanced New Game settings every time you start a new game. (e.g. planet type/temperature, number of opponents, victories.) but some are retained (World size, opponent difficulty, alien aggression)

Two things about world gen:

it seems to force starts into either end of the heat zones. Desert or Arctic. Started 30 games, all were either arctic or desert starts.

Something also seems to have changed with generation, Every start has a bonus tile (research, various 'specials' etc) within 1 square of the dropzone.

Missed opportunity for an achievement: Taking a hive with a drone.

Edit:

Invasion #2: I cannot fathom a way to defend against it. I'm not sure /what/ the AI did in the first invasion to survive, but the second one wrecked everything. The motherships laid waste. I'm in the middle of the Mechanization Era when this happens, and have no meaningful way to compete with 120 Power motherships.

[SephiRok]

Multiplayer stuff should be all fixed.

[KaiFiebach]

Doh. Yesterday evening I played until turn 189, close before the Alien Invasion. This morning I installed the new beta patch and on loading my savegame, I receive a Runtime Error in PandoraServer.exe (logfile attached). I only can start a new game, but to be honest, I have no desire to play hours in vain again.

things about world gen: it seems to force starts into either end of the heat zones. Desert or Arctic. Started 30 games, all were either arctic or desert starts.

Confirmed, there is a serious bug:
If you start the game via "Advanced", you will always get a Desert or Arctic start.
This does not happen with the normal start of the game though.

Final thoughts: What will trigger the Alien Invasion?
Even without having a chance to play the Alien Invasion, I am not sure if a turn trigger (around turn 200) is the best solution. Games can develop very differently, sometimes turn 200 may be too soon, sometimes too late. Perhaps it would be better to trigger the Alien invasion with the players' achievements? This could be with certain techs or close to the victory conditions, so that players indeed are able to handle the Alien invasion.

[Zak0r]

If you link it to something I can influence as player then I promise you everyone will abuse it to max out the time before the invasion comes until he is fully prepared. So I'd strongly advise against linking it to some tech or similar.

[KaiFiebach]

Zak0r, you are not playing alone on the map. If the arrival of the Aliens would be linked to the achievements of all players combined, it would be very hard to abuse this. Remember "Civilization". Some players already can reach the Modern Age in the 19th century, others do not even reach just one future tech in their games. For the first type of players, Aliens in the final turns of the game would be too late, for the second type of players, even in the late game Aliens could be too hard. It could be harmful if Players who invested hours in their game finally meet Aliens without a chance to survive them. Drastic things have to be balanced very carefully. Precise balancing is hard, the overall achievement approach could be an easier solution.

btw: Personally, I would prefer an entirely different approach: Instead of having the Alien Invasion always in the late game, I would prefer it to happen anytime between 50% and 90% of the game. I prefer unpredictability. However, the sooner the Alien Invasion could happen, the more balancing would become an issue.

[Zak0r]

Sure I'm not alone. But if I'm the tech leader I will abuse this like hell and get highlvl techs before someone else can reach the tech that triggers the invasion. That's why it is bad to link it to a specific tech. A human player will always find a way to abuse his knowledge about game mechanics. This should be avoided. I wasn't saying a time trigger is the best solution though.

[Piruparka]

Bug in 1.4.0: Resets advanced New Game settings every time you start a new game. (e.g. planet type/temperature, number of opponents, victories.) but some are retained (World size, opponent difficulty, alien aggression)

Two things about world gen:

it seems to force starts into either end of the heat zones. Desert or Arctic. Started 30 games, all were either arctic or desert starts.

Something also seems to have changed with generation, Every start has a bonus tile (research, various 'specials' etc) within 1 square of the dropzone.

Missed opportunity for an achievement: Taking a hive with a drone.

I can confirm that.

[void]

Hm, concerning world generation, four out of five tries with advanced settings actually gave me a temperate starting location (6 players, medium world size, continents). Did you guys use any special settings?

We thought about coupling the invasion to an event (like reaching an era, average research progress, etc. but as Zak0r said it can be abused). We might add that researching techs very slowly shifts it a bit forwards, similar to how building improvements increases alien aggression. On impact the power of all players is analyzed and the invasion forces are matched against it (so while advanced, they can arrive in lower numbers). Note that there is still an impressive minimal arriving force, so if you really got nothing -- you're in big trouble.

[SephiRok]

If anyone that helped would like to be added to credits in the next version, please let us know your names in the following format: First Name "Nickname" Last Name

Cheers!

[mara]

Settings that always yield an extreme start:

Huge world
Quick
Temperate
Very Low Aggression
Medium difficulty opponents
Continents

I've gone through the invasion four times now. As far as the invasion goes, having every one of my cities Ion stormed along with those motherships and troops, all with T3 grade armour and weapons is too much to handle by that turn limit. At least on quick. I really /really/ have to push here for a way to disable this event in the settings.

The problem I'm having with the invasion is the fact that originally, the game flowed from the Aliens being the threat, into the other factions. it was a smooth transition that worked really well. It gave you a focus early game, instead of spreading like wild fire and filling your island. With the invasion where it is, wars are just really starting in earnest, aliens are handled and cleared. Only to have the Messari piled on top. It's jarring. To make a little pun. Messari, but I'm not particularly fond of the event as it is.

For the credits. Christopher "Mara" Montgomery

On that note, is there anyway one of you coding types could go in and capitalize my name on the forums here? ><' If I had known this was going to be a forum account and not just an Multiplayer login, I'd've done the right thing *chuckle*.

More general issues I'm having:
- Costal cities are still really bad.
- Arctic starts are the worst. Having terrain that does nothing is really crippling.
- Refitting still seems sub optimal.
- Allied victories 75% for Military Victory comes too soon. There needs to be some sort of 'Total Domination' Victory.

No bugs with cloud saving noticed thus far, loaded it on OSX and XP. Achievements seem to be ticking off fine. Multiplayer testing to follow.

[mara]

Bug: Achievement: Choke's On You.

Not sure how this was triggered, I built a road near a mountain? Maybe? Attached is the save.

Also, Why is Steam updating, then the updater downloading more as well?

[SSLConf_Koriko]

WOW the invasions are awful. They are honestly instant loss.. period. Spamming Ion storms that prevent you from defending your cities, tier 3 units when you are lucky if you have tier 2 anything, MASSIVE amounts of units all over the place. It is ridiculous and should honestly just be removed from the game. The direction with this invasion is moving farther and farther away from interacting with other players and forcing you to compete against the world. It's Russian Roulette with invasions, either you get spammed right off the bat with portals and units and lose immediately or you get "lucky" and have about 5 turns before they wipe EVERYONE else off the planet and then come for you.

Why is this mechanic even in the game? Are we supposed to be fighting the world and not other players in a semi-coop style game? Is it supposed to be like the Civ games where the ultimate goal is interacting with the other players? I feel like all I'm supposed to do is pile my cities full of units and never actually do anything because I will die otherwise. This invasion just makes it a thousand times worse where ALL you do the entire time is attempt to spam units in hopes you live through it.

The WORST part of it all is the absolutely insane Ion spam. How are you supposed to defend yourself when every one of your cities is taking constant damage =FOREVER=? You can't heal, you can't defend your cities with units because they DIE inside due to the storms, and you can't venture out or you get stomped by the thousands of units they have and then they just waltz in and take over the city.

All I can even think about saying is: Do not release the invasion in it's current form. It is awful in every way and in no way is it even moderately fun or improves gameplay or increases depth.

IF this mechanic has to stay... It MUST be a TOGGLE OPTION at game creation. Then remove the Ion storms completely, hold the invasion off until the the majority of players are in tier 3 so they can cope with it, tone down the unit spam, and spread the portals so they actually spawn units instead of units just appearing all over the map. That might actually make it fun to deal with rather than just a "U LOSE LOLOLOL" timer.

[mara]

*snip*

IF this mechanic has to stay... It MUST be a TOGGLE OPTION at game creation. Then remove the Ion storms completely, hold the invasion off until the the majority of players are in tier 3 so they can cope with it, tone down the unit spam, and spread the portals so they actually spawn units instead of units just appearing all over the map. That might actually make it fun to deal with rather than just a "U LOSE LOLOLOL" timer.

To give everyone an idea of just how /well/ the invasion went, here's a before and after of the same area. IN this particular game, Togra (of all factions) won for simply living slightly longer than the rest, taking a Military victory with 3 cities and ~6 troops. Everyone else was wiped off the map.

This has ruined a lot of the charm of Pandora for me personally.

beforeandafter.jpg (132.48 KiB) Viewed 5825 times

Also, As spectator, I unlocked the achievement "True friends stab you in the front".

[void]

Looks like we have to swing the nerf bat. Does either of you have a save before the invasion hits?

[mara]

Looks like we have to swing the nerf bat. Does either of you have a save before the invasion hits?

The "BrokeFort" save is a from the same game, not sure how far back. *starts practicing his swing*. Nerfbats are fun.