Unit Guide

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proline
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Unit Guide

Post by proline » Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:18 am

Does anyone know of a really good unit guide? As a new player (iPad), I find that a lot of things are hidden don't seem to be explained in the game or the documentation. Like what units have special abilities- mine clearing, fort busting, transformer powers, etc. It would be nice if there was a guide somewhere that went through every unit in the game and gave the following:

-special abilities
-strengths
-weaknesses
-best way to use it
-best way to kill it
-how it compares to alternative units including those of other countries

For example, I've been able to find good threads here on how to pick German infantry, but what about allied infantry? SAS vs. commandos vs. rangers and such? There are a lot of units that have a role in-game that I could never guess from the stats. For example, I saw a great thread here about the panzer II flam which apparently is really good against buildings. It would especially be nice to have a guide to artillery.

BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by BiteNibbleChomp » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:20 am

You'll never get a guide that covers
proline wrote:every unit in the game
- there are over 800 of them! If you ask about specific units, then some very good answers are likely to appear. For infantry, most '___ Inf' ones have the same or similar stats, and their 43 variants are usually quite a bit better.

For German Artillery, the most common belief is that the 10.5 and later the 15cm are the best, while my personal favourite are the Nebelwerfers.

KVs usually require a strategic bomber/artillery and an 88 to kill, and even then you're struggling, until you get Tigers.

- BNC
Former Panzer Corps and Strategic Command 2 modder. I'm more active on Matrix these days

ThvN
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by ThvN » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:05 am

For iPad users, I've posted some info and links to other threads with info here: viewtopic.php?f=121&t=50758#p477826 .

The terrain/weather/movement stats you can find there will be a good start to better learn to get best out of some units.

A unit guide doesn't have to cover each unit separately I think. Many special abilities (called traits) are only available to a few units which are available to most armies (like engineers). Also, specific class bonuses are often more important than a few points of attack/defense difference. For example, all paratroopers have the 'fortkiller' trait which increases attack strength by +5 when attacking structures. So I think there is not really a need to describe all paratroopers separately, because their stats are so close. A discussion of their relative advantages (traits, good initiative) vs. their disadvantages (low ammo, no organic transport allowed when airborne) when compared to other infantry types would cover most questions, I think.

I have a busy day at work tomorrow, but I'll get started with some brief info.

First of all, some units can switch. This can only be seen after you purchase them, so it might help to know this short list of switchable units:

viewtopic.php?f=121&t=44602&p=422415#p422415

Another thing is upgrade paths. It might help to plan ahead which units to buy when knowing which ones can be cheaply upgraded (in-family) or when a better unit becomes available. Last year I made this upgrade chart for the German units, I hope the download still works...

http://www.sendspace.com/file/gauu59

Something that is often discussed but completely invisible on the iPad is the RoF, or rate of fire. This is a percentage that adjusts the number of shots (attack dice rolls) that can be made by a unit. Normally this is one attack per point of unit strength, but some units have lowered or raised RoF figures which influence their combat effectiveness.

Examples: Panzer II Flamm has a RoF of 14, which means when it is at 10 strength it will roll 14 attack dice, and when at 5 strength it will roll 7. But heavy artillery usually has less than 10, say a RoF of 8. A 10-strength unit will only roll 8 dice, a 5-strength unit will roll only 4. Note that overstrength counts when calculating the total attack rolls. Discussions which have nice calculations here viewtopic.php?f=121&t=26663 and here: viewtopic.php?f=121&t=46916&p=444121#p444121


Units which have RoF adjustments:

Panzer II Flamm / Churchill Crocodile : 14
2cm Flakvierling / SdKfz 7/1 / Wirbelwind : 12

7.5cm Fk 16 nA / StuG III / StuG IV : 11
Basically, all 7.5cm / 75mm artillery guns in the game, allied or axis, have RoF 11, including the 25-pdr / Bishop / Sexton units.

Sturmpanzer / SiG 38(t) / Hummel / 155mm Long Tom / 155mm M12 GMC / BL 5.5 inch / Italian 149mm / Soviet 152mm (incl. the ISU-152) : 9
Almost all non-German 15cm/155mm guns have a Rof of 9; the equivalent German guns usually have 8:

15cm sFH / 17cm K18 / Brummbar / SiG 33 II : 8

21cm Mrs 18 / BL 7.2 inch / (USA) 8 inch M1 : 7

KenAllen
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by KenAllen » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:26 am

proline wrote:Does anyone know of a really good unit guide? As a new player (iPad), I find that a lot of things are hidden don't seem to be explained in the game or the documentation. Like what units have special abilities- mine clearing, fort busting, transformer powers, etc. It would be nice if there was a guide somewhere that went through every unit in the game and gave the following:

-special abilities
-strengths
-weaknesses
-best way to use it
-best way to kill it
-how it compares to alternative units including those of other countries

For example, I've been able to find good threads here on how to pick German infantry, but what about allied infantry? SAS vs. commandos vs. rangers and such? There are a lot of units that have a role in-game that I could never guess from the stats. For example, I saw a great thread here about the panzer II flam which apparently is really good against buildings. It would especially be nice to have a guide to artillery.
I was going to ask the same question myself lol. Loving the game but I feel there needs to be more detailed explanation of unit types and their traits to get the most from it. I cannot understand what the difference is between say the grenadier and pioniere? Why is the pioniere more expensive even though they have 1 less initiative?

Thanks to ThvN for your links to terrain, movement and switchable unit list. I will find them a big help. I will also look through the dice calculations links to as I would love to know the hidden mechanics.

Just need a unit trait list now :). Has anyone taken the time to compile a spreadsheet or pdf with this information? It would be really handy to have a full reference sheet to refer to while playing this game. (I appreciate that there are a lot of units in this game but if only some of the units have special traits then only those need listing)

Thanks guys :)

fliegenderstaub
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by fliegenderstaub » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:25 am

KenAllen wrote:...

Just need a unit trait list now :). Has anyone taken the time to compile a spreadsheet or pdf with this information? It would be really handy to have a full reference sheet to refer to while playing this game. (I appreciate that there are a lot of units in this game but if only some of the units have special traits then only those need listing)

Thanks guys :)
The unit traits are listed in the equipment.pzeqp ( you find it in the "data" folder in the "Panzer Corps" directory; open it with Excel or the Open/ Libre Office equivalent; it is just a spreadsheet). The column AA is named "Add Traits". There you go!

I hope this is what you are searching for. :)
...and like the once-mighty Mahi-Mahi, you will end
up on a poo-poo platter in the Tikki Hut of life! -Al Bundy -

KenAllen
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by KenAllen » Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:30 am

Thanks for the reply but I should have said that I have iPad version and I think all that info is missing. I wonder if there is a way for us iPad owners to get a hold of this :)

aster
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by aster » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:48 pm

KenAllen wrote:Thanks for the reply but I should have said that I have iPad version and I think all that info is missing. I wonder if there is a way for us iPad owners to get a hold of this :)
Yup Ken, they seem to have left some of the finishing touches on the iPad incomplete and moved on to other projects - there are actually a number of features left out beyond the missing docs (though the doc/library pages are perhaps the most baffling).

And yeah, AFAIK there isn't any direct way of looking up unit traits/abilities such as the paratroops' fort-busting skills or specifics of pioneres/engineers, or what any given unit's ROF is, etc. Traits really should just be displayed on the unit info screen. Others' advice of opening the game's raw data to figure this out doesn't work for us iPad peons as we've got no access to those individual files.

KenAllen
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by KenAllen » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:32 pm

Thanks :)

Looking around in the tips and FAQ section I came across this link to a pdf with exactly what i needed. A pdf with a list of all units and their traits

https://www.sendspace.com/file/a2gvq2

proline
2nd Lieutenant - Panzer IVF/2
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by proline » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:16 pm

ThvN wrote:For iPad users, I've posted some info and links to other threads with info here: viewtopic.php?f=121&t=50758#p477826 .A unit guide doesn't have to cover each unit separately I think. Many special abilities (called traits) are only available to a few units which are available to most armies (like engineers). Also, specific class bonuses are often more important than a few points of attack/defense difference. For example, all paratroopers have the 'fortkiller' trait which increases attack strength by +5 when attacking structures. So I think there is not really a need to describe all paratroopers separately, because their stats are so close. A discussion of their relative advantages (traits, good initiative) vs. their disadvantages (low ammo, no organic transport allowed when airborne) when compared to other infantry types would cover most questions, I think.
Well, for units that basically 'follow the rules' of attack, defense, initiative, etc., such as most tanks, perhaps a guide isn't necessary. However, from what I've seen Panzer Corps is a game of exceptions- everywhere you look there are units with special powers- all terrain movement, fort buster, transformer, parachute jumping, ROF adjustments, ignore entrenchment, bridging, minesweeper, etc. etc. etc. Every time someone tries to list them all in the forums they inevitably forget some stuff and leave many questions unanswered. Just off the top of my head, here's a few more-
-I've heard the Panzer flam has fort buster. The Crocodile attacks with fire, so does it have it too?
-The bridge builder tank doesn't seem to be able to actually build a bridge. It just works like an expensive, slow, bridging engineer unit with no attack and that is really expensive to upgrade into/out of. Slightly better defense but that's it. Is there any reason to get one?
-What units can jump from airplanes? Obviously the ones with parachutes on their icons, but what about SAS, commandos, rangers, etc? This is kind of frustrating to new users because you have to abandon transport to try it and then if it doesn't work it costs money/time to buy your transport back.

Plus, some units such as the sturmpanzer are really awesome but in ways that aren't apparent to an inexperienced player who looks at their numbers.

So maybe we don't need a guide that covers every unit, but one that covers every unit with special powers would be nice. As for the 600 units thing, this game has a great community, nothing a wiki can't handle?

aster
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by aster » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:41 pm

Good points all, and thanks for the info proline. Far as the Sturmpanzer goes, can you tell us inexperienced players what those strengths are? Glancing at the stats in KenAllen's linked PDF I don't see anything that stands out hugely. Thanks.

captainjack
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by captainjack » Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:41 am

The Stug III B has fortkiller trait, good armour for its time (so can plug a gap in an emergency), has reasonable ammo so spends more time firing than reloading and fires at 110% (so 11 shots for every ten strength). It is also quite cheap and gains experience quickly.

The SiG 33 is powerful for the time it's available but has weak armour and only four ammo (so you spend a lot of time reloading). In real life they were used a bit like the Stug 3 in a close support role, so the 3 range is probably a bit generous, but they are pretty useful at the time they are available.

KenAllen
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by KenAllen » Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:17 am

aster wrote:Glancing at the stats in KenAllen's linked PDF I don't see anything that stands out hugely. Thanks.
Hi,

In the traits column of the PDF link there are abbreviations of all units special traits and abilities. There is a list somewhere which explains what they all mean. I'm at work at mo but will post it when I get back if you like, or if someone else posts it in the meantime. I found having that list is of great value as once you know what the traits are and along with the units attributes you can make your own good judgement on how and where to use them.

:)

KenAllen
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by KenAllen » Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:44 pm

Trait abbreviations:

- meng - military engineer, ignores entrenchment
- beng - bridge engineer
- para - paratrooper
- fortkiller - bonus against structures
- radar - initiative bonus to all planes within spotting range
- green - always starts with zero exp, even if scenario settings tell otherwise
- nopurchase - is not listed in purchase menu
- noupgrade - cannot be upgraded
- noreplace - cannot be replaced
- bonus - These are units which are randomly given at the beginning of a scenario in a campaign. Cannot be purchased. Bonus unit can be upgraded only to another bonus unit
- fixedt - fixed turret
- carpb - carpet bombing
- close - close combat

"alpine" trait was supposed to give mountain units some advantage in mountains terrain, but it is not used. Their movement advantage is expressed with a special alpine movement type. "fixt" and "rott" stand for fixed turret/rotating turret respectively, and in the future initiative penalty (-3) will occur when a fixt unit attacks rott unit, but for now it is hard-coded for AT and tank classes. "lsup" stands for long-term suppression and is not used yet either.

ThvN
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by ThvN » Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:25 am

Thank you for reminding me I should start updating some old info to the 1.21 version, as that list you posted is very old (I think it predates 1.10?). :(
Here is my own little list that I've compiled so far during modding that includes the most recent updates.

Traits

beng: bride engineer, allows other units to use this unit as a bridge to cross rivers.

backfire: used to flip the unit icon when firing (for the portee guns, but dibs on using it for some switchable AA units like the SdKfz 7 models 8) ).

bonus: unit is an SE unit.

camo: unit can only be spotted when an enemy unit gets adjacent to it (like with a minefield).

captureflag: inverts predefined class ability to capture flags. Infantry/tank/recon/AT lose it, other classes gain it.

fortkiller: unit has +5 attack strength bonus when attacking structures.

glider: used for gliders.

green: always starts with zero exp, even if scenario settings tell otherwise (used for Soviet conscript).

kamikaze: unit dies after attack.

meng: unit ignores effects of entrenchment when attacking.

minefield: used for minefields, which have special rules (camo, no spotting, take 1 casualty each attack, always inflicts at least one casualty).

minekiller: normally minefields lose only a single strength point from attacks, but a unit with this trait will (AFAIK) inflict kills according to normal combat damage calculations.

minesweeper: unit can clear a minefield with a single attack.

missile: air unit does not refuel on friendly airfields.

nopurchase: is not listed in purchase menu.

noupgrade: cannot be upgraded.

noreplace: cannot be replaced.

nozoc: unit does not exert zone of control (used for minefields).

para: unit can be parachuted from air transports.

primary: used for switchable units to indicate the main unit that is used for purchasing, upgrading, deploying, etc.

radar: unit gives air units in spotting range a +1 initiative bonus.

reconmove: inverts predefined class ability to use recon type movement.


Traits which have no effect:

alpine: no effect, used for mountain units, is represented by different movement type.

close: no effect, used for infantry, is now a class bonus for all infantry units.

carpb: ‘carpet bombing’, no effect, used for level (strategic) bombers, possibly what became the ‘Strategic Bombing’ class bonus for level bombers to reduce prestige/turn flags neutral.

lsup: ‘lower (reduce) supply’ , no effect, used for level (strategic) bombers, is now a class bonus for level bombers.

fixedt: ‘fixed turret’, no effect, is a class bonus for AT units.

rott: ‘rotating turret’, no effect, is a class bonus for tanks.

KenAllen
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by KenAllen » Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:26 pm

Cool thanks :)

Radoye
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Re: Unit Guide

Post by Radoye » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:47 am

ThvN wrote:Traits which have no effect:

alpine: no effect, used for mountain units, is represented by different movement type.

close: no effect, used for infantry, is now a class bonus for all infantry units.

carpb: ‘carpet bombing’, no effect, used for level (strategic) bombers, possibly what became the ‘Strategic Bombing’ class bonus for level bombers to reduce prestige/turn flags neutral.

lsup: ‘lower (reduce) supply’ , no effect, used for level (strategic) bombers, is now a class bonus for level bombers.

fixedt: ‘fixed turret’, no effect, is a class bonus for AT units.

rott: ‘rotating turret’, no effect, is a class bonus for tanks.
Could be interesting using some of these for different unit classes - rott for AT class tank destroyers with rotating turrets (US M10 M18 M36 and the like), carpb and lsup for the heaviest of the artillery and/or Katyushas (area saturation weapons not unlike level bombers), close to take away the class bonus from certain INF class units (cavalry?)...

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