[UI]whole unit data required

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Galdred
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[UI]whole unit data required

Post by Galdred » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:16 pm

Some very important pieces of informations are left out of the information display :
I have to go to the purchase screen to see an unit move allowance and spotting range, but you cannot even do that for opponents (+ it is cumbersome), while both are crucial informations about your own troops and the enemy (I forgot to mention that during beta. I should have...).
I think the best way to address it would be to add the informations on the unit panel on the right, but if it makes things too hard to read, there should be a way to have the full stats of an unit (right clicking on it for instance?), as shown in the purchase screen.
Currently, I have to open the unit editor to see that, which is not very practical.

FroBodine
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by FroBodine » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:19 pm

Excellent suggestion. I knew something was missing when I was wondering how far my units could spot things. All stats need to be available at all times.

Rudankort
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Rudankort » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:33 pm

This is what happens when you falter in your beta duties. ;)

I'll see what I can do.

Larac
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Larac » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:04 pm

Well if had been allowed to test.......

Horst
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Horst » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:40 pm

Yep, spotting and movement characteristics are important when planning moves to attack. Will they see me or not? The only way to find out at moment is to constantly look up the unit statistics in the game file.
The game supports up to 4 weapons but the UI only offers 3 weapons to compare. I personally don't need the large unit and terrain graphics shown on the right panel, so one additional weapon line could be added for own and enemy units. The font size of the unit name is somewhat too large too, as it sometimes doesn't offer enough space to show the full name anyway. As long as you can't rename units, it's rather redundant to have two unit name descriptions.

rezaf
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by rezaf » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:22 pm

I'm currently trying to mod the UI a bit - still a lot of work to do. I even made room for more unit stats, but unfortunately, the neccessary hooks seem to not have yet been implemented.

Image
_____
rezaf

Razz1
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Razz1 » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:43 pm

Galdred wrote:Some very important pieces of informations are left out of the information display :
I have to go to the purchase screen to see an unit move allowance and spotting range, but you cannot even do that for opponents (+ it is cumbersome), while both are crucial informations about your own troops and the enemy (I forgot to mention that during beta. I should have...).
I think the best way to address it would be to add the informations on the unit panel on the right, but if it makes things too hard to read, there should be a way to have the full stats of an unit (right clicking on it for instance?), as shown in the purchase screen.
Currently, I have to open the unit editor to see that, which is not very practical.

I have been meaning to mention this as it has been bugging the hell out of me, but I have a real life besides this game.

thank you for taking out spotting range and movement.

Horst
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Horst » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:23 pm

Not bad, rezaf!
If the units stats would use slightly smaller icons and numbers, I bet you could place them all in a single line above oder like there under the weapon stats. A fourth weapon line is still really required, not for the vanilla units but for modders' sake.

Kerensky
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Kerensky » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:40 pm

I could be wrong about this, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure the current side panel was never actually intended to carry 100% of unit information on it. It's arranged and trimmed for aesthetic purposes and also for only the most critical need to know combat stats. There's just no possible way to cram everything to where it exists now, it can never have been meant do that.

I was certainly under the impression for an expanded unit information feature to exist separately, like the expanded unit card you see in Panzer Corps for example.
Like this:

Image

Just looking at the old Panzer Corps UI side area, it also did not try to cram in every piece of unit detail in it, and you can clearly see the visual improvement in the 40k UI with nice extras like the cool unit and terrain graphics available in the embedded window.

Razz1
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Razz1 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:58 am

I would actually do away with one those two features in order to see all the statistics. Just my opinion.

I don't need to see a kool icon on the side bar. I have the Kool unit on the map to look at :)

The terrain graphics is very nice but,do we really need 1 1/2 inches x 3 inches to say: terrain type, Cover, LOS, defense?

rezaf
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by rezaf » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:20 am

Horst wrote:Not bad, rezaf!
If the units stats would use slightly smaller icons and numbers, I bet you could place them all in a single line above oder like there under the weapon stats. A fourth weapon line is still really required, not for the vanilla units but for modders' sake.
Thanks, but like I wrote, it still needs quite a bit work. I made that room in anticipation of getting access to a couple of more things (like spotting and movement ranges), but yeah, if they don't come, the info can be condensed into a single line.
You might have noticed I already made the unit name and type fonts smaller and resized the panel - it's now about 60 pixel higher, but 25% less tall. I did this since I reduced the total width of the sidebar by 25%.
If a fourth weapon is even supported by the code, it should be possible to cram it in there by moving everything a bit closer together.
Kerensky wrote:I was certainly under the impression for an expanded unit information feature to exist separately, like the expanded unit card you see in Panzer Corps for example.
Another sorely missed feature from PzC that go the axe for Armageddon. Let's hope this one will be reimplemented at some point...
_____
rezaf

Warhangel
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Warhangel » Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:16 pm

+1
I also need this information ;)
In dedicato Imperatum ultra articulo mortis...

Horst
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Horst » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:06 pm

A fourth weapon works fine in the game (and editor simulator).
Someone still needs to additionally clean up the purchase screen, next to the main-ui, to make room for the fourth entry.
While changing/adding weapons to a unit, I’ve noticed that it’s important that the first weapon has the longest range, as the game won’t show a firing animation then if weapon #1 doesn’t have equal range. The casualty calculation is still correct though.

Kerensky
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Kerensky » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:19 pm

Horst wrote:A fourth weapon works fine in the game (and editor simulator).
Someone still needs to additionally clean up the purchase screen, next to the main-ui, to make room for the fourth entry.
While changing/adding weapons to a unit, I’ve noticed that it’s important that the first weapon has the longest range, as the game won’t show a firing animation then if weapon #1 doesn’t have equal range. The casualty calculation is still correct though.
Are you sure about this? Multi weapon units seem to work alright when they have weapons with minimum ranges, or something like Imperial vehicles with flamers and heavy bolters, last I checked they played properly. Flamer does not animate at range 3, only heavy bolter does. Both animate properly at range 1, even though the heavy bolter is a secondary weapon with higher range than the base weapon.

Hmm... I'll have to double check this. I better be careful about this when it comes time for melee animation integration...

Falke_MatrixForum
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Falke_MatrixForum » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:35 pm

Kerensky wrote:I could be wrong about this, so take it with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure the current side panel was never actually intended to carry 100% of unit information on it. It's arranged and trimmed for aesthetic purposes and also for only the most critical need to know combat stats. There's just no possible way to cram everything to where it exists now, it can never have been meant do that.

I was certainly under the impression for an expanded unit information feature to exist separately, like the expanded unit card you see in Panzer Corps for example.

Just looking at the old Panzer Corps UI side area, it also did not try to cram in every piece of unit detail in it, and you can clearly see the visual improvement in the 40k UI with nice extras like the cool unit and terrain graphics available in the embedded window.
A Right-click or double tap (for tablets) showing all data would be fine

Horst
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Horst » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:55 pm

Kerensky wrote:Are you sure about this? Multi weapon units seem to work alright when they have weapons with minimum ranges, or something like Imperial vehicles with flamers and heavy bolters, last I checked they played properly. Flamer does not animate at range 3, only heavy bolter does. Both animate properly at range 1, even though the heavy bolter is a secondary weapon with higher range than the base weapon.

Hmm... I'll have to double check this. I better be careful about this when it comes time for melee animation integration...
I only did a test with Steel Legion Infantry. Gave it a Vanquisher Cannon as last weapon which didn't show an attack animation at range 3.

Kerensky
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Kerensky » Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:07 am

Uhhh.. you did what? :!:

Well in that case, yes I imagine it wouldn't work. After you give a unit a weapon in data, there still are extra configurations that must be set up before it functions properly. Let me get back to you once the EFX editor is back online, we had to take it offline when implementing the first iteration of impact effects. I'm hoping this will all get cleared up nicely after that's done! :)

Horst
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Horst » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:57 pm

I got it. You still need to add an effect line in attack.whdat for each unit's used weapon slots\types to make their weapon animations show correctly. I didn’t know it is that complex now as I’m used to the PzC engine.

Kerensky
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Re: [UI]whole unit data required

Post by Kerensky » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:15 pm

Horst wrote:I got it. You still need to add an effect line in attack.whdat for each unit's used weapon slots\types to make their weapon animations show correctly. I didn’t know it is that complex now as I’m used to the PzC engine.
Indeed, it is a bit more complicated, we didn't just clone PzC! Configuring the attack file should have some help coming soon though, stand by! :wink:

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