Armies with Gendarmes

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ravenflight
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Armies with Gendarmes

Post by ravenflight » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:04 am

Hi All,

What is the best army with Gendarmes in it? After this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=112&t=53397

I'm rather turned on to the idea of trying a Gendarmes kind of army.

My interests in that period are mostly Landsknechts, so I imagine that there are some decent armies around with loads of them and at least 2 BG's of Gendarmes?

Any thoughts on the best most competitive army?

No great rush, as it will be at least 12 months before I even start on them, but just wondering...

timmy1
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Re: Armies with Gendarmes

Post by timmy1 » Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:00 am

Probably Italian Wars French, the early option with large numbers of good Swiss. You want to avoid Lansnequets as the armies with them in are not so good...

ravenflight
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Re: Armies with Gendarmes

Post by ravenflight » Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:08 am

timmy1 wrote:Probably Italian Wars French, the early option with large numbers of good Swiss. You want to avoid Lansnequets as the armies with them in are not so good...
Thanks Timmy,

Boo at the armies not being good :(

I was aware of the Italian Wars Swiss, so may have to give them a go :/

timmy1
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Re: Armies with Gendarmes

Post by timmy1 » Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:40 pm

An army that has Gendarmes and Landsknechtes is Maximilian Imperial, the In Italy 1512 option. Not sure if it is any good but it might scare one or two. The commanders lead the Gendarmes into combat and the CinC either leads the LH tgo delay on one flank or leads the GBG if it will get into combat. Use the horse to support the Gendarmes. If the enemy will not come out to play, shoot him repeatedly with the artillery. You can lose all the Gendarmes and the artillery and not break the army. The list might not be legal with the latest proposal to neuter the French but it is legal as the rules are written.

PBI +1, Terrain: Agricultural, Woodlands, Hilly; Breakpoint 11
4 x Troop Commander
3 BG each of 4 Gendarmes, Fully Armoured, Superior, H Lance, Sword
2 BG each of 6 Horse, Armoured, Average, L Lance, Sword
Landsknechte 14 Heavy Foot, Armoured, Superior, Pike and 2 HF Armoured, Superior, Heavy Weapon
2 Average Medium Artillery
2 Average Heavy Artillery
4 Light Horse, Unarmoured, Average, L Lance, Sword
4 LH, Unarmoured, Average, Crossbow

ravenflight
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Re: Armies with Gendarmes

Post by ravenflight » Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:06 pm

timmy1 wrote:PBI +1, Terrain: Agricultural, Woodlands, Hilly; Breakpoint 11
4 x Troop Commander
3 BG each of 4 Gendarmes, Fully Armoured, Superior, H Lance, Sword
2 BG each of 6 Horse, Armoured, Average, L Lance, Sword
Landsknechte 14 Heavy Foot, Armoured, Superior, Pike and 2 HF Armoured, Superior, Heavy Weapon
2 Average Medium Artillery
2 Average Heavy Artillery
4 Light Horse, Unarmoured, Average, L Lance, Sword
4 LH, Unarmoured, Average, Crossbow
Not a bad list, and I like Max, he was pretty cool!

One thing I'm trying to get my head around is HOW to use Gendarmes. There is very little that they have a POA against in Impact, and so are highly unlikely to be in melee with a disrupted Pistolier, so will be evens (at best) against Cuirassiers.

I have thought that one use of the lance armed cavalry in the Japanese list is to hover in and around the bow/arquebus armed Ashigaru to:
1) give rear support; and,
2) (more importantly) intercept charges by P&S (Swedes & French in particular) or mounted trying to get a free meal.

The trouble with the Gendarmes, is that they are normally in armies whose foot fear nothing, so the Gendarmes are kinda their own thing and don't do that thing very well.

I suppose against top shelf Cuirassiers they are dead, but against anything else they are in with a chance (eapecially if they don't disrupt at impact.

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Re: Armies with Gendarmes

Post by madaxeman » Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:50 pm

In the Maximillian army, take the Elite Gendarme option.

The purpose of Gendarmes is to take on the other sides cavalry, and use their better armour to win in Melee.

In theme however that often means a Gendarme lottery happens

Elite is a very effective tie-breaker in that situation!
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timmy1
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Re: Armies with Gendarmes

Post by timmy1 » Fri Dec 26, 2014 4:05 am

Tim

Had initially planned to take the Elite but the extra 16 points seemed excessive. On reflection you are right.

R

At 800 points if you dropped the Landsknechte to unarmoured it would give you the required 16 points to make one BG of Gendarmes up to Elite.

Tim

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Re: Armies with Gendarmes

Post by puster » Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:09 pm

The classic army of Landsknechts with Gensdarmes would be the French army of 1515 at Marignano. Some 17000 Landsknechts - among them the some 5000 strong Black Band - Francis and all the French Gensdarmes he could bring on battling some 20000 Swiss. The Battle of Giants, they called it...

In the years before Francis had Landsknechts in his force, too, on lean from Maximilian, to fight eg. at Ravenna against the Spanish.

The French army at Pavia also had a core of Gensdarmes and both Swiss and Landsknechts (again the Black Band, to be destroyed there).

Maximilian always had Gensdarmes in his army, starting from his times as regent in Burgund, but usually relied more on his Landsknechts for actual battles. The Spanish used Gensdarmes but were usually not able to stand up to the French (when they clashed, as at Ravenna or Pavia). I think you can safely bring in some Gensdarmes in almost any army of the period.

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Re: Armies with Gendarmes

Post by viperofmilan » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:19 pm

ravenflight wrote:
timmy1 wrote:PBI +1, Terrain: Agricultural, Woodlands, Hilly; Breakpoint 11
4 x Troop Commander
3 BG each of 4 Gendarmes, Fully Armoured, Superior, H Lance, Sword
2 BG each of 6 Horse, Armoured, Average, L Lance, Sword
Landsknechte 14 Heavy Foot, Armoured, Superior, Pike and 2 HF Armoured, Superior, Heavy Weapon
2 Average Medium Artillery
2 Average Heavy Artillery
4 Light Horse, Unarmoured, Average, L Lance, Sword
4 LH, Unarmoured, Average, Crossbow
Not a bad list, and I like Max, he was pretty cool!

One thing I'm trying to get my head around is HOW to use Gendarmes. There is very little that they have a POA against in Impact, and so are highly unlikely to be in melee with a disrupted Pistolier, so will be evens (at best) against Cuirassiers.

I have thought that one use of the lance armed cavalry in the Japanese list is to hover in and around the bow/arquebus armed Ashigaru to:
1) give rear support; and,
2) (more importantly) intercept charges by P&S (Swedes & French in particular) or mounted trying to get a free meal.

The trouble with the Gendarmes, is that they are normally in armies whose foot fear nothing, so the Gendarmes are kinda their own thing and don't do that thing very well.

I suppose against top shelf Cuirassiers they are dead, but against anything else they are in with a chance (eapecially if they don't disrupt at impact.
In period, I think you're right. Gendarmes work best as flank supports for your keils. There will be little non-gendarme mounted that they have a hope of catching, and they will be even vs. enemy gendarmes. Out of period, they are pretty useless against almost any flavor of pistol. Oddly enough, they potentially are most effective against impact mounted from the later horse and musket armies. Fully armored gendarmes will have positive POAs against these types at impact and in melee. Louis XIV French beware. Given the overall design concepts about the ineffectiveness of outdated weapons systems, this would appear to be a anomaly.

Kevin

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Re: Armies with Gendarmes

Post by MatteoPasi » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:18 pm

ravenflight wrote:Hi All,

What is the best army with Gendarmes in it? After this thread:

.......Any thoughts on the best most competitive army?
The answer can only be: "Every list can be competitive or not, It depends on the pool of the competition" ;)

In an open competition I suggest Caroline army so you can have both gendarmes and shooting mounted, in T&T maybe It's better to opt for French armies.

Matteo

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Re: Armies with Gendarmes

Post by MatteoPasi » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:21 pm

timmy1 wrote: PBI +1, Terrain: Agricultural, Woodlands, Hilly; Breakpoint 11
4 x Troop Commander
3 BG each of 4 Gendarmes, Fully Armoured, Superior, H Lance, Sword
2 BG each of 6 Horse, Armoured, Average, L Lance, Sword
Landsknechte 14 Heavy Foot, Armoured, Superior, Pike and 2 HF Armoured, Superior, Heavy Weapon
2 Average Medium Artillery
2 Average Heavy Artillery
4 Light Horse, Unarmoured, Average, L Lance, Sword
4 LH, Unarmoured, Average, Crossbow

Mmm .... not sure about this list: too many artillery and few man to defend them. No terrain troop and low iniziative factor so your enemy will propably make the table.

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