First tests with cav 18AP

Post Reply
GShock112
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 4:44 pm

First tests with cav 18AP

Post by GShock112 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:26 pm

I've played 4 battles with it and I must say the feeling is very good.
The teppo don't seem to be too vulnerable to the cav charge: they still evade it when picked off from far away (it's just that this far can be a bit farther now).
The archers instead seem harder to escape, but they work completely different from the teppo: the archers do fight and they also fight well enough to fend themselves.
Flanking is a bit easier but not that easy. +4AP means nothing and everything depending on ZoCs and terrain. That also is very good.

I must say I am very satisfied but I'd be more satisfied if I had the ironman mode (no)save option: I restarted the perfect campaign after I lost a 18.000vs20.000 battle. :)

As with the editing itself and file tampering, the duplicate campaign has the exact same name, which was surprising (I'm sure i renamed it). I did put the right file in the right spot because the cav have 18AP now but this modded campaign appears as last in the list, with the same name and the only apparent difference aside from that is the existence of a button to delete it. Is there a way to modify the campaign description?
Next thing I'd like to do is increase by a minor % the revenue of the provinces to allow more troops to be bought. This should compensate for the inability to reinforce front line armies for the side that is winning (you get more cash). With just a minor change the newly spawned army shouldn't be that much bigger (and there's still the manpower limit which is something I didn't quite understand since I can apparently recruit a new army from the same province, i.e. Okazaki, without apparent lack of manpower ever being hit).
What's the file for that (and where is it)?

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22423
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: First tests with cav 18AP

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:05 am

GShock112 wrote:I must say I am very satisfied but I'd be more satisfied if I had the ironman mode (no)save option: I restarted the perfect campaign after I lost a 18.000vs20.000 battle. :)
Shame on you. ;)
Richard Bodley Scott

Image

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22423
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: First tests with cav 18AP

Post by rbodleyscott » Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:08 am

Really 18AP? That is only a +2AP change and won't let them move an extra square, just allow one square move to be diagonal.
GShock112 wrote:As with the editing itself and file tampering, the duplicate campaign has the exact same name, which was surprising (I'm sure i renamed it). I did put the right file in the right spot because the cav have 18AP now but this modded campaign appears as last in the list, with the same name and the only apparent difference aside from that is the existence of a button to delete it. Is there a way to modify the campaign description?
When you create a new campaign the editor puts the name in Text1.txt in the campaign folder. However, when you clone one, there is already a campaign name - usually in text5.txt in the campaign folder. This overwrites the version of the string in Text1.txt when the files are loaded.

So to name your campaign correctly you need to edit the campaign name string in Text5.txt
Next thing I'd like to do is increase by a minor % the revenue of the provinces to allow more troops to be bought. This should compensate for the inability to reinforce front line armies for the side that is winning (you get more cash). With just a minor change the newly spawned army shouldn't be that much bigger (and there's still the manpower limit which is something I didn't quite understand since I can apparently recruit a new army from the same province, i.e. Okazaki, without apparent lack of manpower ever being hit).
What's the file for that (and where is it)?
In Campaign.BSF in the campaign's main folder, there is a line that says

SetCampaignVar("BaseProvinceValue", 150); // base revenue value of province in points.

Just change 150 to something a bit higher.
Richard Bodley Scott

Image

GShock112
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 4:44 pm

Re: First tests with cav 18AP

Post by GShock112 » Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:34 am

I can't jump to more than 18ap until a whole campaign is completed. I've won the first battle by miracle and I hope not to loose the second one too bad.

Me thinks this system of engagement/cat-mouse and retreat is too artificial when assigned solely to the difficulty level. I have mentioned a cards system so the player (and AI) have options. In this case a surprise attack with a smaller force (but properly auto-deployed), a 5 turn length battle with instant retreat and resolution computed could do miracles. It's just an idea ... I can't stop thinking you are supposed to wipe out an army without need to chasing it around for so long it eventually is caught by reinforcements. The individual reinforcements to an army in front line, also could be handled by a card.
The campaign strategic side suffers when shadowed by such a beautiful combat system.

We need something to give to the player that's not just moving the army, fighting, combining/splitting/raising. The campaign is really a gold mine. It could be developed with tons of options via card, all relatively easy to implement.

jomni
Sengoku Jidai
Sengoku Jidai
Posts: 1385
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:20 am

Re: First tests with cav 18AP

Post by jomni » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:38 am

GShock112 wrote: It could be developed with tons of options via card, all relatively easy to implement.
Are you sure it is easy? :wink:
Sometimes a seemingly simple concept is actually a pain to implement in code. Especially for an engine that was not intended to do this sort of campaign. We are thankful that Richard pulled it off.

GShock112
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 4:44 pm

Re: First tests with cav 18AP

Post by GShock112 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:19 am

I said relatively easy, not easy. :-)
The benefits of a simple campaign engine are all in the fact it's easier to build on top of it than it would be for a more complex engine.

The system of cards can add variables to what is already there (i.e. temporarily add/subtract 200 supply to a province if you or the AI play the extra supply/sabotage cards, or spawn the 2 armies with one in the middle with a small area of deployment and the other allowed to deploy on all sides if you or the AI play the ambush card, reinforce a frontline army with 1 extra unit if you or the ai play the reinforcement card, add 2MP if you play forced march card... etc. etc.). Nothing really fancy but... effective at giving the 2 sides something else to do on the map between one battle and the next.

GShock112
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 4:44 pm

Re: First tests with cav 18AP

Post by GShock112 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:46 pm

Rob, sorry to bug you but I had expected to find individual province values (tax rate) and not a global 150 value.
Also... some provinces (the native ones) seem to be more valuable (162 if I am not mistaken) but I can't find where to add this value. Is it hard coded?
The off-map (trade) income... can it be tweaked so it's different from side to side? I mean... the Oda were obviously stronger in trade than the Takeda.

If I rise the basic value from 150 to 165 (+10%) I would also like to increase the native values from 162 to 186 (+15%).
Is there a way to do that?

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22423
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: First tests with cav 18AP

Post by rbodleyscott » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:30 am

GShock112 wrote:Rob, sorry to bug you but I had expected to find individual province values (tax rate) and not a global 150 value.
Also... some provinces (the native ones) seem to be more valuable (162 if I am not mistaken) but I can't find where to add this value. Is it hard coded?
The off-map (trade) income... can it be tweaked so it's different from side to side? I mean... the Oda were obviously stronger in trade than the Takeda.

If I rise the basic value from 150 to 165 (+10%) I would also like to increase the native values from 162 to 186 (+15%).
Is there a way to do that?
The base province value is 150, but this is modified for individual provinces depending on the terrain. [See GetNormalProvinceValue() function in \Data\scriptsCampaignTools.BSF]. Each province also has its own individual economy modifier which is adjusted when the province is the scene of military activity, and recovers gradually if the war moves on. [See GetCurrentProvinceValue() function in \Data\scripts\CampaignTools.BSF].

I don't know what you mean by native provinces. The only thing that affects the starting value of provinces is the terrain. Note that the reported tax value of enemy provinces may (deliberately) be inaccurate.

You should be able to increase the value of all provinces simply by altering the single base province value variable in Campaign.BSF.
Richard Bodley Scott

Image

GShock112
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 4:44 pm

Re: First tests with cav 18AP

Post by GShock112 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:25 pm

Native province would be one where you can raise a new army for your side.
alright I'll begin by just adding 10% value to all provinces then and let the terrain modifier take care of everything else.

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22423
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: First tests with cav 18AP

Post by rbodleyscott » Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:45 pm

GShock112 wrote:Native province would be one where you can raise a new army for your side.
alright I'll begin by just adding 10% value to all provinces then and let the terrain modifier take care of everything else.
It varies from campaign to campaign, depending on the customised scripts, but generally you only get 50% tax for captured provinces.
Richard Bodley Scott

Image

GShock112
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 4:44 pm

Re: First tests with cav 18AP

Post by GShock112 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:36 pm

Does a side who goes negative on balance (when the expenses are higher than the upkeep) actually lose men?

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22423
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: First tests with cav 18AP

Post by rbodleyscott » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:44 pm

GShock112 wrote:Does a side who goes negative on balance (when the expenses are higher than the upkeep) actually lose men?
No, but obviously their armies will dwindle through attrition.
Richard Bodley Scott

Image

GShock112
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Administrative Corporal - SdKfz 232 8Rad
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 4:44 pm

Re: First tests with cav 18AP

Post by GShock112 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:53 pm

That's incomprehensible. If I go minus on balance my attrition is increased? What actually happens?

rbodleyscott
Field of Glory 2
Field of Glory 2
Posts: 22423
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:25 pm

Re: First tests with cav 18AP

Post by rbodleyscott » Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:26 pm

GShock112 wrote:That's incomprehensible. If I go minus on balance my attrition is increased? What actually happens?
Nothing happens. It was usual for rulers to go into arrears - it was normal in this era for troops not to be paid on time.

However, as the side that is in arrears will not be able to recruit any new units to replace lost units, or add to their forces, they will be on the slippery slope to defeat.

It was not felt necessary to add additional positive feedback to the spiral of defeat.
Richard Bodley Scott

Image

Post Reply

Return to “Modders Corner”