Heavy Steel preview

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kondi754
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by kondi754 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:27 am

Andy2012 wrote:@kondi: Yeah, I remember some post about "the Artistocrats can pack it up" or something. Almost as odd as that German dude with his inane rants. Well, lets hope that adherbal post some pics again to cheer everybody up.
BTW, are there any explicit forum rules? They almost seem unnecessary, everybody behaves around here, mostly.
Frankly, I have no idea.
Maybe Erik will know.

Erik2
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Erik2 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:42 pm

He doesn't, which is a bit embarrassing of course :oops: I couldn't find any by browsing about a bit.
But I guess it boils down to; be civil, no personal attacks, be subtle - no obvious profanity :D

bebro
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by bebro » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:51 pm

Andy2012 wrote:@kondi: Yeah, I remember some post about "the Artistocrats can pack it up" or something. Almost as odd as that German dude with his inane rants. Well, lets hope that adherbal post some pics again to cheer everybody up.
BTW, are there any explicit forum rules? They almost seem unnecessary, everybody behaves around here, mostly.
Just to avoid any misunderstandings, Balck was certainly not banned because he complained about the Artistocrats - he has a history on this place, and it's far older, it actually dates back to times when this team didn't even exist.

Beyond that mods can be discussed in the mod forum, this thread was started for dev previews.

VPaulus
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by VPaulus » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:04 pm

Yes, we have moved the posts related with the mod to their own threads in the Scenario Design forum section.
Those posts who quote the aforementioned banned user, were deleted.

Regarding the forum rules, we follow basically the ones we have on Matrix forum:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/register.asp

Andy2012
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:14 pm

Erik wrote:He doesn't, which is a bit embarrassing of course :oops: I couldn't find any by browsing about a bit.
But I guess it boils down to; be civil, no personal attacks, be subtle - no obvious profanity :D
Neinneinneinneinnein - Civility, no personal attacks, subtly, no profanity - you make this forum a non-starter for us Germans. Ze hole teutonic mindset centers around zhese zhings. Vhat vould ve be without them? (Answer: Popular.) :mrgreen:

@bebro, vpaulus: Stupid jokes asides, this sounds pretty reasonable. That Balck dude must have been something to get banned. :shock:

Anyways, when do we get to see more tanks? Or a gif of a Ju87g hammering tanks with double cannons? Please, dont use the machine gun sounds and animations for this...(if you can find the time) :D

adherbal
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by adherbal » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:33 pm

Or a gif of a Ju87g hammering tanks with double cannons?
I tried to take one but every time I pressed prtnscrn I missed a good frame where the muzzle flashes were big and bright :( Perhaps a GIF is a better idea although without the sound effects it's only half the fun. Video perhaps - if I find the time :)

EDIT: Have some unit icons instead for now.
SturmPanzer_IV_ART.png
SturmPanzer_IV_ART.png (16.75 KiB) Viewed 2281 times
Sturer_Emil.png
Sturer_Emil.png (20.28 KiB) Viewed 2281 times
Ju87_G.png
Ju87_G.png (12.65 KiB) Viewed 2281 times
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Andy2012
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Andy2012 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:50 am

@adherbal: Nice, looking great.
Sturer Emil and Brummbar already look awesome. Its really great that you include all these lesser known and built tanks. (okay, Sturmpanzer IV is more well known and widely produced.)

Horst
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Horst » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:55 am

Brummbär, my favourite German SPG (after the Sturmtiger ofc)!

That Sturer Emil will become nasty with its 12.8 cm Flak 40. Only useful for the rear protection though due lack of armor. In PC, such unit should have a very high initiative to avoid damage, but such stat unfortunately doesn’t exist in OOB.
I hope this unit gets the limited replacement and noPurchase trait. Two built SPGs don’t make a whole unit yet. I wouldn’t like too many experimental/prototype early/mid-war units without limits in the game.

The 3.7 cm barrels of the Ju 87G look more like 7.5 cm with that thickness. They also don’t show the muzzle brake of the Flak 18.

Can’t wait to see these units in action!

Andy2012
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Andy2012 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:50 am

Horst wrote:Brummbär, my favourite German SPG (after the Sturmtiger ofc)!

That Sturer Emil will become nasty with its 12.8 cm Flak 40. Only useful for the rear protection though due lack of armor. In PC, such unit should have a very high initiative to avoid damage, but such stat unfortunately doesn’t exist in OOB.
I hope this unit gets the limited replacement and noPurchase trait. Two built SPGs don’t make a whole unit yet. I wouldn’t like too many experimental/prototype early/mid-war units without limits in the game.

The 3.7 cm barrels of the Ju 87G look more like 7.5 cm with that thickness. They also don’t show the muzzle brake of the Flak 18.

Can’t wait to see these units in action!
That Sturer Emil should be an aux unit, otherwise its overpowered. Would be pretty good in a defensive role with the OoB system, just put your Wehrmacht around it in a star-shaped pattern and you're safe.
And maybe those Ju87g barrels do look a bit thick.
But as long as its fun, I dont care that much about minor details. Would be great if HeavyInf would get their respectively correct Machineguns, though, instead of just M2 Brownings for everybody.
Oh yeah, please take your time with mission design. With the OoB supply system, there should be ample opportunities for dramatic battles and actual Blitzkrieg strategies which you cannot do with the Panzercorps rules and engine. Fighting retreats, pincer moves, blowing up bridges behind you while you consolidate for a counterattack - these were all things that happened in 42-43.

adherbal
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by adherbal » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:56 am

I think the Ju barrels are fine? Maybe a thad bit too thick but at least that makes them clearly visible in the usual zoom level.

As for the Sturer Emil, we'll see how we handle it. Might be a one-off reward unit. Although just because the Germans chose not to mass-produce it in reality doesn't make it totally unfeasible that they can be in the game. I'm sure the cost, weak armour and quite frankly overkill of the barrel size at this point in the war won't make them the most cost-effective units anyway.
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terminator
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by terminator » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:00 pm

hi,
will this new units be available for the next update or for the next DLC ?

Imp écran do not work (black screen) , F9 for screenshots during replay :
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adherbal
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by adherbal » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:47 pm

I'm not sure yet - it depends on whether we can expand the Skirmish mode in the Burma update to contain some land-based maps. In that case the German and Soviet unit rosters will also be expanded. Otherwise it'll be delayed until the next one.
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Luftwaffe reinforcements
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Andy2012
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Andy2012 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:43 pm

@adherbal: That does look nice. So theres Ju87g and Hs129 as tankbusters. (Please make Ju87D to G a switch variant...)

Not so sure about the other bombers, though. I mean, the iconic Luftwaffe planes are already there, so these must be lesser known variants, right?

adherbal
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by adherbal » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:34 pm

Variants and updates.

Strategic bombers will also get a switch ability to deliver ground supply on the hex below, in exchange for their bombload. And some stat tweaks to make them more attractive as core units.
Image

Andy2012
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Andy2012 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:06 pm

adherbal wrote:Variants and updates.

Strategic bombers will also get a switch ability to deliver ground supply on the hex below, in exchange for their bombload. And some stat tweaks to make them more attractive as core units.
Hm, that does sound interesting. Right now, I never use Stratbombers (unless Erik forces me. Damn you, Erik.*shakes fist* :mrgreen: ).
Luftwaffe needs a shipbuster apart from the Stuka.
Supply delivery is a nice addition, but probably only worthwhile in a few select missions, e.g. Demyansk Pocket. So this would mean my bombers hover over an airfield or village, increase supply there until they run out of fuel and I have to fly them back?

kondi754
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by kondi754 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:13 pm

First (headed) - He 177 Greif
(@Andy: Its a well-known Lufftwaffe bomber :) )
The last one - Do 217 K
Left - Hs 129 (with AT gun)
Right - Ju 188

Horst
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by Horst » Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:17 pm

Maybe it’s a perspective issue with the barrel size of the Ju 87G there. It looks okay on the larger picture, but still lacks the conical muzzle brakes. The 3.7 cm AA units in OOB got these conical barrel ends too, so no reason to make it different there.

About the Emil: I’m only afraid of scenario designers that abuse experimental, prototype, or even only-on-paper units as standard in many maps. It already happened in PC when they introduced so many paper-units in Soviet Corps that some designers think it’s cool to use them on every other map. That ruins at least my fun to play as I prefer a bit of plausibility and want to use and fight what actually existed on the battlefields in the past. I’m still fine with any sci-fi stuff from historical war-end on if units existed on paper at least.

Nice planes there. Kondi should already named them correctly. I hope the Hs 129B-3 with that 7.5 cm won't already show up around Kursk 43, but only later in winter 44/45.

PS: That strategic supply drop sounds great!

adherbal
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by adherbal » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:21 pm

Right now, I never use Stratbombers
Neither do I, so clearly they need some love :)

So this would mean my bombers hover over an airfield or village, increase supply there until they run out of fuel and I have to fly them back?
Correct. You can only switch when parked on an airfield however, not in mid air. And the supply output is pretty low (probably 2-4 depending on the bomber size). Still, aside from specific scenarios about pockets surrounded by enemy forces it allows you to take a bit more risks pushing into enemy territory, when keeping one or two supply bombers nearby in case anything gets cut off. The trade-off is of course that they can't do any damage in that mode, but hopefully it adds another use for this unit class.

There will also be a non-purchasable Ju-52 in supply mode available for specific scenarios. I think this mechanic will be interesting on maps like Stalingrad, trying to keep the pocket alive while under constant attack from Soviet flak and fighters.
Image

bebro
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by bebro » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:48 pm

Horst wrote:Maybe it’s a perspective issue with the barrel size of the Ju 87G there. It looks okay on the larger picture, but still lacks the conical muzzle brakes. The 3.7 cm AA units in OOB got these conical barrel ends too, so no reason to make it different there.
In the unit icon it might simply be an issue of resizing - the backwards firing MG is kinda one pixel "thick", the (bigger) 3,7 gun ca. 2-3 px - between that there isn't any room for say 2,5 px, so anti-alias comes in, which is unavaoidable (it might look better with a real background as anti-alias will produce semi-transparant edges "blending in" better).

As for the conical ends - at some point polygon count has to be limited, and some details get simplified or even left out to save polygons due to performance reasons. Some AAA games might use very detailled 3d models but this clearly has an impact on minimum specs.

joey
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Re: Heavy Steel preview

Post by joey » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:01 pm

adherbal wrote:
Right now, I never use Stratbombers
Neither do I, so clearly they need some love :)

So this would mean my bombers hover over an airfield or village, increase supply there until they run out of fuel and I have to fly them back?
Correct. You can only switch when parked on an airfield however, not in mid air. And the supply output is pretty low (probably 2-4 depending on the bomber size). Still, aside from specific scenarios about pockets surrounded by enemy forces it allows you to take a bit more risks pushing into enemy territory, when keeping one or two supply bombers nearby in case anything gets cut off. The trade-off is of course that they can't do any damage in that mode, but hopefully it adds another use for this unit class.

There will also be a non-purchasable Ju-52 in supply mode available for specific scenarios. I think this mechanic will be interesting on maps like Stalingrad, trying to keep the pocket alive while under constant attack from Soviet flak and fighters.
Having the ability to air supply units even in small amounts will add a lot to a number of scenarios. Perhaps both the JU52 and the C47/R4D could be available either in purchasable form or as extra units in various scenarios.

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