Future of OOB?

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simcc
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Future of OOB?

Post by simcc » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:59 pm

I first supported OOB a lot however lost my love when they move to West campaign in which I felt that the developer have lost focus or maybe they never had an official long term game development plan.

What is still in my mind is that what's the long term plan for OOB as I really like this game and extremely impress with the air and naval gameplay and the fact that it's pacific theater which makes this game very appealing as western front have been well covered by PzC so a change in theater is like a dream come true. Below list the personal wish list and what I think will make OOB bigger than PzC.

1. Grand campaign
This is totally different approach from developers of multiple DLC of totally different theater and there is no link in which makes the idea of grand campaign impossible to implement as you can't import your core etc. Maybe grand campaign was never plan as I can see the heroes cannot be bought forward as in grand campaign style of PzC. So developer try to get into a grand campaign style and implemented core import but it's really a failure due to short in sight and poor planning.
This game have such a big potential and if there is a plan to build a grand campaign in the first place would look like below.
Japanese campaign
- pacific wing by year
- central and east Asia wing by year
Allied campaign
- pacific wing by year (U.S.)
- central and east Asia wing by year (British, China, others including US)
From this, developer can easily develop 6 years of campaign starting from pre 41 to 45. Other smaller campaign in the middle can be done as DLC that will cover any battle ground that wasn't covered by the grand campaign
2. Specialization
Well I heard that this will be change completely with the new DLC and I think it's a good start even when it's late. Better late than never I guess. Again this show the short sighted view when the first game was developed as clearly this system was not made to handle GC style. No idea on the changes in this, might spend some time to try it.
If this was plan with GC style it would make wonders that PzC never did and replay much more meaningful and enjoyable. I always thought that specialization should work like a tech tree and every campaign you invest points to make your army more specialize in players playstyle like air units focus, mine clearing, jungle warfare etc so everytime a player embark on a new GC he can play a different style.
3. Gameplay improvements
My biggest let down is the vehicle or transport movement. PzC makes it good on this and makes you tool up and use the correct transport team on different battleground but in OOB it doesn't matter as all movement is the same. Paratroopers play also doesn't make any sense as they lose efficiency too soon to be properly used. Since supply system have been developed why no option to air transport supply to keep cut off troops supplied?
4. Scenario design
Not as good as PzC as there is limited option to approaches the game. You have developed supply system so why not give more options to players like using cheap mass unit style or elite small squad or fast moving flanking move and others, I really feel that the scenario can be design better. There is still a lot of battles missing to complete the entire east theater.

I feel very disconnected and I think I only have marine, morning sun and winter war DLC as I don't see a point in continuing with german land or naval campaign. I feel even more disconnected if I play those. Clearly each DLC lauch have no GC style in long run in which is why I gave up supporting this game. I do hope that one day OOB will have a GC style and I will be back to support it. This is not to shame or bash the developer, I believe in OOB and think it's an excellent game but it's derailed and I hope to see it success one day

bru888
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Re: Future of OOB?

Post by bru888 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:58 pm

As a newly-appointed forum moderator, I have to watch how I respond in thread like this to avoid:
* Looking like a fanboy (which I probably am anyway)
* Looking like a know-it-all (which I am not, but I'm working on it)
* Looking like I am an official spokesperson, beating down criticism.

Still, I'd like to respond as a private citizen, if I may.

You say you "lost your love" when OOB moved West "as western front have been well covered by PzC." Here are a few observations on this:
* Some of us OOB fans never played PzC, including yours truly. For me, OOB West is just as interesting and enjoyable as the East because I have not played WWII West since John Tiller's Campaign Series. I loved that game, but OOB puts it to shame now.
* Indeed, I want MORE West, particularly Afrika Korps and Liberation of Europe.
* However, I have greatly enjoyed U.S. Pacific, Morning Sun, Rising Sun, and U.S. Marines in the East.
* Moreover, OOB is the first game in which I have enjoyed naval action in various campaigns, West or East. There was even a campaign with only naval action, Kriegsmarine, which I also enjoyed.

You say "the developer have lost focus or maybe they never had an official long term game development plan." True, for the most part, about the lack of an official long term plan but not true about lost focus. Yes, the game is being developed in front of our eyes and major changes have occurred (Specialization System, Core Import, Enhanced Naval Warfare) and will occur (Skirmish Mode) as we go along. But why is that a problem? The only thing that I ever fear is that a change affects the way older DLC plays out. I'm on board for this creative ride.

Regarding your personal wish list:

1. Grand campaign - This could be one of those future enhancements that we will see more of some day. A foretaste was the linkage of the earliest campaigns, Tutorial to U.S. Pacific and Morning Sun to Rising Sun, when Core Import was introduced. Of course, this must be limited by geography and reality. Would you link the core of every OOB campaign together so that a 1930's Chinese unit would somehow end up in Northern Africa or Berlin? More, bigger, linked campaigns like the Japanese Grand Campaign and the ones that you propose could be offered in the future but again, it's a work in progress. Want to support that work in progress? Keep buying their DLC in the meantime.

2. Specialization - I'm not sure what you mean by "Well I heard that this will be change completely with the new DLC" because I was on the Burma Road beta team and I saw no upcoming change to the Specialization System. Maybe I missed something but you go on to describe the system in a way which, to me, summarizes how the system currently works (are you patched up to 3.4.2, by the way?).

3. Gameplay improvements - You only list vehicle movement and supply system here. I saw one post here recently which talked a bit about improving the bonus for paved road movement and I saw another about using air transport to provide supply, so both of those areas seem to be receiving consideration and will be improved by the developers as they consider appropriate (with an eye to old DLC, I hope).

4. Scenario design - Are you talking about the scenario editor (which is also a work in progress) or scenarios in general? You recommend "more options to players like using cheap mass unit style or elite small squad or fast moving flanking move and others" but you would need to elaborate a bit, I think, so that they can be considered as suggestions.

Toward the end of your post, you say "There is still a lot of battles missing to complete the entire east theater" and "I only have marine, morning sun and winter war DLC." I mentioned that I helped beta test Burma Road; without being a fanboy, I can easily recommend this upcoming DLC to you in response to these comments.

So I hope that you will do three things:
* Reconnect yourself to OOB and support its development rather than looking for a finished product.
* Begin doing so by buying the Burma Road DLC next week.
* Have patience while the developers consider ways to provide more of "a GC style" in the same way that I am having patience waiting for Skirmish Mode and Afrika Korps.

This way, you can help bring about "what I think will make OOB bigger than PzC."
- Bru

koopanique
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Re: Future of OOB?

Post by koopanique » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:15 pm

bru888 wrote:(Skirmish Mode)
I'm quite happy to see that the idea of a Skirmish Mode hasn't been abandoned. I sure hope there will be an option to play against the AI. Do you know anything about this?

richfed
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Re: Future of OOB?

Post by richfed » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:17 pm

I feel your pain, simcc! I had very high hopes -- perhaps too high -- for this game. I keep waiting for the next thrill, but so far nothing matches the 2 U.S./Allied campaigns in the Pacific Theater. At least for me.

bru888
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Re: Future of OOB?

Post by bru888 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:28 pm

koopanique wrote:
bru888 wrote:(Skirmish Mode)
I'm quite happy to see that the idea of a Skirmish Mode hasn't been abandoned. I sure hope there will be an option to play against the AI. Do you know anything about this?
I have no direct knowledge but there have been hints.

For instance, skirmish mode was being beta-tested back in March along with Kriegsmarine. That was before my time as a beta tester, but I noticed some old threads on that topic. They did not ask us to beta test skirmish mode with Burma Road but that does not mean that it's not still on the drawing boards.

For one thing, there's semi-public beta testing and there's inner-circle beta testing, if you get my meaning. Also, there are these two recent hints from adherbal posted elsewhere in this fully public forum (not the beta forum):

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... sh#p670420
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... sh#p662254

He/they will get to it eventually. It's too much of a potential game play / cash revenue enhancer not to do so.
- Bru

JohnMcCarthy1
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Re: Future of OOB?

Post by JohnMcCarthy1 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:11 am

richfed wrote:I feel your pain, simcc! I had very high hopes -- perhaps too high -- for this game. I keep waiting for the next thrill, but so far nothing matches the 2 U.S./Allied campaigns in the Pacific Theater. At least for me.
I found the kriegsmarine campaign to be very fun (minus the u-boat mission that drove me insane, because I didn't know I could have the u-boats surfaced and not spotted)
As for the game's future, I think it's pretty well off and as far as things missing, I think it's missing some units which are being added every DLC update (which is great) and the one thing missing that I think is a major aspect, which I bring up every couple of months (because I've still not had an explanation) is the lack of "live" multiplayer, because i think the game would be better if you could just sit down with a friend (over the internet) and play a match instead of having to log in play your turn upload it exit the match and then wait enter the match again watch the turns then repeat.
(also a steam workshop for mods would be nice-ish)
any way the game is doing pretty well and I think it will be around for quite a while
I still would like to know why there is no "live" multiplayer for this great game.

Andy2012
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Re: Future of OOB?

Post by Andy2012 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:58 am

@all: Well, I guess we all enjoy the game differently. I liked Blitzkrieg and Winter War best, mission design was best here. Rest was decent, but didnt feel a strong emotional connection to the pacific theater. And with Kriegsmarine, well, I think it had its issues.
For the future, I am hoping for a continuation of the Wehrmacht campaign in Russia and Afrikakorps. Both campaigns should focus on the supply system in mission design a lot more, in the sense of making pincer moves and raiding supply lines more integral to winning a mission. This was already present in Raate Road and Kiev, but should be way more important throughout the campaign. I mean, the possibilities for that stuff are endless: A fighting withdrawal into the Vyazma pocket, protecting supply trucks and wounded while your engineers blow up bridges behind you? Afrikakorps holding a position in "The Cauldron" under British attack while trying to open a supply route through a British minefield to their base? Protecting supply convoys for Rommel's men from RAF attack? Trapping superior Matildas with hidden 88s? The possibilities for OoB to be awesome with great mission design are endless.

WarHomer
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Re: Future of OOB?

Post by WarHomer » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:43 am

No criticism here, except for KriegsMarine which was way too short (which really ruins replayability for me) and had such potential for tie in to the/a german campaign.

But a Grand Campaign is also high on my wishlist, and I hope they take this into account for futher DLC´s.

simcc
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Re: Future of OOB?

Post by simcc » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:17 pm

Well bru888, I have been in this game since the beginning and and quite active in forum in the past hence I know the specialization changes as per hint or suggested or discussed like a few years ago maybe.

When this game first launch as OOB pacific I was one of the few early dudes that suggested GC style and when the first DLC morning sun came I was thinking ok there is a link but no option to import core as per GC style? Ok maybe work in progress I guess then bam winter war??!! I was like ok how the hell is this gonna be a GC? Hahaha

Well I would say bru888 I am a fanboy as well and the other gamer I salute in OOB is erik as he plan and provided many maps inclusive of Burma map from the beginning and he was hardcore hahahaha with many hours working on custome made map etc. He is the first moderator as far as I know, where is he now? Hmmmm

I do agree that players might not played PzC hence the need or excited to go west but I still believe getting a pacific campaign in 2-3 years from launch date and proceed to import the entire model to west inclusive Spanish war, winter war, africakorps etc would be more beneficial to both developer and gamer.

I have great addiction for these type of games hence I have thousands of hours in PzC as I keep repeating the GC and their DLC like africakorps, soviet campaign etc and I do love OOB but playing non connected DLC makes me feel no love for my veteran army that I have fought with and used and it's like ok restart new guys sure, don't give me the ideal achievement that wow that infantry started with me on GC39 huh over 300 unit kills wow my treasure feel and that's what make hardcore PzC players love PzC so much as I chat with those players very frequently to discover new army composition, tactics etc. Any hardcore PzC players will agree that our first SE unit that followed us to the end transforming into a tiger 2 is the units that we loved the most.

Also the love for this game make me made this post as I heard PzC 2 is coming and I want OOB to be great before that new game come so that OOB remain competitive and grow even with PzC 2 in picture. I believe I have been MIA in this forum for over a year now hence I really wanna know the future of OOB, if it's gonna be GC style in the next few years I am all in to purchase every DLC and even can do fund raising for GC.

Not only that I am worry about but there are other games incoming that might even take my entire attention away even when it's totally different game like wasteland 3, fallout 5, necromunda etc as I am a game addict and I never had enuf time to play all games hence I need to pick those that gain enuf love to spend my time on. I have no issue spending money on games as I am an addict but what's the point if it sits there and i didn't even played it like a lot of my games so I really wish Artistocrats can plan properly for a great OOB future and for gamers whom can spend over thousand hours for your game and write a review to support it, it will be a huge impact that's for sure but if players like me owned a game and played 2 hours it's known to our community that it's not interesting.

Good luck and make OOB a great game

Andy2012
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Re: Future of OOB?

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:05 pm

simcc wrote:
When this game first launch as OOB pacific I was one of the few early dudes that suggested GC style and when the first DLC morning sun came I was thinking ok there is a link but no option to import core as per GC style? Ok maybe work in progress I guess then bam winter war??!! I was like ok how the hell is this gonna be a GC? Hahaha
This is a small team working on a complex game, constantly expanding and coding new stuff. Have patience. Rome was not built in a forthnight as well.
simcc wrote: Well I would say bru888 I am a fanboy as well and the other gamer I salute in OOB is erik as he plan and provided many maps inclusive of Burma map from the beginning and he was hardcore hahahaha with many hours working on custome made map etc. He is the first moderator as far as I know, where is he now? Hmmmm
Erik is working hard on the beta and other things.
simcc wrote: and that's what make hardcore PzC players love PzC so much as I chat with those players very frequently to discover new army composition, tactics etc. Any hardcore PzC players will agree that our first SE unit that followed us to the end transforming into a tiger 2 is the units that we loved the most.
Yes, I remember that fondly, too.
simcc wrote: I have no issue spending money on games as I am an addict but what's the point if it sits there and i didn't even played it like a lot of my games so I really wish Artistocrats can plan properly for a great OOB future and for gamers whom can spend over thousand hours for your game and write a review to support it, it will be a huge impact that's for sure but if players like me owned a game and played 2 hours it's known to our community that it's not interesting.

Good luck and make OOB a great game
I doubt that a single review can move markets. But I appreciate your enthuasiasm about OoB. Burma Road is out tomorrow. Let's enjoy it - design by Kerensky of GC Panzercorps fame.

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