Cohesion test for missiles

[nyczar]

Is the cohesion test at 10% missile losses based on the size of the unit before combat, or the size of the unit when fired upon? I have check the manual and the forum (as best I could) and i am hoping it is not to hard to get a clarification.

[rbodleyscott]

Is the cohesion test at 10% missile losses based on the size of the unit before combat, or the size of the unit when fired upon? I have check the manual and the forum (as best I could) and i am hoping it is not to hard to get a clarification.

The size of the unit at the start of the battle.

It is 16% not 10%.

Note that a test may be triggered at slightly lower or higher displayed losses than this. This is because the system keeps track of "partial casualties" that will be rounded down (think lesser wounds), principally so that elephants can be forced to take a cohesion test if shot at by multiple units, even if no elephants are actually killed. (So the actual threshold is 17.6% before rounding down "partial casualties.")

Also note that only the first 3 ranks of models in the original formation of a deep unit count for this, so a pike phalanx will actually test on (approximately) 12% casualties.

[nyczar]

Ok Thanks. That address the essence of my question but raises another. In the manual, it says

15.2. Cohesion Tests
Troops take a Cohesion Test if they suffer significant total shooting casualties
(> 10%) in a turn, lose a round of close combat (inflict significantly less total
close combat damage in the turn than they suffer), see a friendly unit break
or a general in line-of-command incapacitated nearby, or attempt to Fall Back
when in the charge range of enemy non-light troops.

then the following table says it is -1 at >16% . I had assumed that one test was triggered at 10% and another if cumulative casualties roes over 16%, but at -1. This is incorrect? typo in the manual? Thanks in advance for the help!/

Mark.

[rbodleyscott]

Ok Thanks. That address the essence of my question but raises another. In the manual, it says

15.2. Cohesion Tests
Troops take a Cohesion Test if they suffer significant total shooting casualties
(> 10%) in a turn, lose a round of close combat (inflict significantly less total
close combat damage in the turn than they suffer), see a friendly unit break
or a general in line-of-command incapacitated nearby, or attempt to Fall Back
when in the charge range of enemy non-light troops.

then the following table says it is -1 at >16% . I had assumed that one test was triggered at 10% and another if cumulative casualties roes over 16%, but at -1. This is incorrect? typo in the manual? Thanks in advance for the help!/

Mark.

You are right, my mistake. The manual is correct.

It is 10% to take a test and 16% for the extra -1 modifier.

The adjustments alluded to above apply to both figures.

[wzfcns]

So is that effecient ,use missile against elephant?

[rbodleyscott]

So is that effecient ,use missile against elephant?

Certainly, as long as you shoot at them with several units in a turn. As historically, it is by far the best way of dealing with elephants if the enemy does not keep your skirmishers away with other troops.

[Jishmael]

then the following table says it is -1 at >16% . I had assumed that one test was triggered at 10% and another if cumulative casualties roes over 16%, but at -1. This is incorrect? typo in the manual? Thanks in advance for the help!/

Mark.

Its not a second Test, its the same test result but modified by -1 (if im not mistaken)

[rbodleyscott]

then the following table says it is -1 at >16% . I had assumed that one test was triggered at 10% and another if cumulative casualties roes over 16%, but at -1. This is incorrect? typo in the manual? Thanks in advance for the help!/

Mark.

Its not a second Test, its the same test result but modified by -1 (if im not mistaken)

That's sort of right.

In fact the unit will test each time it is shot at after the 10% threshold is reached for the turn, but if it has already failed a shooting cohesion test during the turn it can't drop cohesion further from shooting in the same turn. Also the test uses the same random score for all shooting cohesion tests by a particular unit during a turn, so if it passed a previous test from shooting this turn, it can only drop cohesion from another test if additional modifiers bring it below the pass threshold.

So a unit that passed its test at 10% could fail a subsequent test if the extra shooting brings its shooting losses this turn to 16%, and the extra -1 is sufficient to reduce its previous score below the pass threshold.

This is a way of simulating the tabletop system in which all shooting is done before any cohesion test is taken, and then a single test is taken. The above has the same overall effect.

[Jishmael]

then the following table says it is -1 at >16% . I had assumed that one test was triggered at 10% and another if cumulative casualties roes over 16%, but at -1. This is incorrect? typo in the manual? Thanks in advance for the help!/

Mark.

Its not a second Test, its the same test result but modified by -1 (if im not mistaken)

That's sort of right.

In fact the unit will test each time it is shot at after the 10% threshold is reached for the turn, but if it has already failed a shooting cohesion test during the turn it can't drop cohesion further from shooting in the same turn. Also the test uses the same random score for all shooting cohesion tests by a particular unit during a turn, so if it passed a previous test from shooting this turn, it can only drop cohesion from another test if additional modifiers bring it below the pass threshold.

So a unit that passed its test at 10% could fail a subsequent test if the extra shooting brings its shooting losses this turn to 16%, and the extra -1 is sufficient to reduce its previous score below the pass threshold.

This is a way of simulating the tabletop system in which all shooting is done before any cohesion test is taken, and then a single test is taken. The above has the same overall effect.

yeah thats what i meant to say/is my understanding
SO just as in P&S its often benificial to shift fire from a unit that already tested and held steady, depending on the circumstances/addable modifiers ofc

[GiveWarAchance]

Does using a combination of ranged types affect the test? One of the tips when loading the game says including artillery fire along with lighter ranged fire on a target improves morale damage.

[rbodleyscott]

Does using a combination of ranged types affect the test? One of the tips when loading the game says including artillery fire along with lighter ranged fire on a target improves morale damage.

Artillery fire gives an extra -1 on the cohesion test, but is often not enough on its own to trigger a test. So shooting with other troops as well increases the chance of a test, which will then be taken with a -1 modifer for being shot at by artillery.

Note that it doesn't matter which order the shooting is done in: Once the artillery have shot, subsequent tests for being shot at this turn will get the -1 even if they are taken after being shot at by another unit type.

[GiveWarAchance]

Thanks for the info. I'm also wondering why artillery so often gets a 0 result even with a big range like 0 to 70 in expected damage. I guess it's cause the coordinates can be totally off sometimes when the crew are setting the range.

[rbodleyscott]

Thanks for the info. I'm also wondering why artillery so often gets a 0 result even with a big range like 0 to 70 in expected damage. I guess it's cause the coordinates can be totally off sometimes when the crew are setting the range.

Yes, the RNG for artillery is skewed towards the lower end of the range.

[GiveWarAchance]

thank you