Production Frustration

Polaris Sector is a sci-fi 4X game that offers exciting exploration, detailed resource management, unique research mechanics and intense tactical combat.
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solops
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
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Production Frustration

Post by solops » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:30 pm

Production trade-offs are not documented. We need pop-ups or some other documentation that tells us that (For example) deleting 4 factories will open up "X" farming slots or "Y" research slots. ... or deleting 3 farms and 2 mines will open "Z" factory slots. Right now, it is all a huge guessing game with serious repercussions. How many slots of one type it takes to free a slot of another type could even be made a racial characteristic, making some races more flexible than others. But the important thing is that we need to know what the trade-offs are ahead of time.

mianmar
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: Production Frustration

Post by mianmar » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:03 pm

I absolutely agree with you!

I really hate when when I need to destroy both orbital and standard science labs to make some room for farms, just to figure out that after destroying 10 science labs and 2 orbitals I gained no space for farms :D

A workaround for this issue is to quick save the game, destroy what you want and if that doesn't yield result you want reload the game and try again on some other planet.

Thrake
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
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Re: Production Frustration

Post by Thrake » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:44 pm

One factory blocks 12 farms. One mine, 7/8. Lab I don't remember.

Lab, factories and mines are roughly 1:1 ratio, it must be rounded because from time to time it's 1/1 and if you destroy more it becomes 1:2 (1,5:1 for mines/factory would match for their farm equivalents).

Ok, now you can have up to 30 factories and 100 farm on a planet for exemple.

First factory blocks 12 farms.
2nd blocks 24.
With 8 factories you block 96 farms.

So, if you built all 30 factories and nothing else, you will need to go down to 8 to be able to build 4 farms. Each less than that will allow for 12 extra farms.

It gets more complicated if you have several different kind of buildings, but that's my understanding. I do recon it's confusing and I see myself saving on occasion to make sure, or sometimes I try to destroy a lab, see it only allows for extra mines and just rebuilt it and try to find another way :D

What I don't fully understand is why I can build a handful labs on farmworlds but nothing else though.

mianmar
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: Production Frustration

Post by mianmar » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:09 pm

Thrake wrote:One factory blocks 12 farms. One mine, 7/8. Lab I don't remember.

Lab, factories and mines are roughly 1:1 ratio, it must be rounded because from time to time it's 1/1 and if you destroy more it becomes 1:2 (1,5:1 for mines/factory would match for their farm equivalents).

First factory blocks 12 farms.
2nd blocks 24.
With 8 factories you block 96 farms.
I kind of disagree with you because from my experience the formula about free planetary buildings space depends from planet to planet.
for example some planets can host 90 farms while other can only 60 but can host more science or mining, the same is true for other building types, some can host more science labs some can fewer etc..

What this means is, you gain same result (ie. what your said 12 farms for 1 factory), but how many times you can rely upon this depends on how much farming space there is in total.
Thrake wrote:What I don't fully understand is why I can build a handful labs on farmworlds but nothing else though.
Yes, Because as I stated above, amount depends on ratio between science/farms which is individual to planet, it's important to note that science/farms ratio are confronting each other most while factories/mines planet ratio are confronting each other most.

for example factories/science labs do not confront each other as much as factories/mines.

I hope Vladimir to provide that info into planet screen, as it's really hard to manage your planets without that info.

Thrake
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
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Re: Production Frustration

Post by Thrake » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:26 pm

It doesn't change the fact that 1 factory blocks 12 farms. You can easily check on every new planet, build one factory and see what happens. If there are 80 max farms, yes, it is a bit different. You still need to take 100 as the farms value (let's call that the virtual value). So you build one factory, you block 12 virtual farms, you're left with 88, thuis is still more than your real maximum, 80, no farms are blocked. Build another factory. Now your max virtual amount is 76, this is less than the real maximum. It means that you have blocked 4 farms. Every subsequent factory will now block 12 farms until you're down to 0.

What that also changes is that in planets with say 3 max mines then you can build all mines and farms after that (you'll block like 20 farms) but if there are more than 13 mines you will be unable to build all mines and farms. Put it differently it can not work differently otherwise you would get different results if you first filled a planet and then started destroying buildings, or if building farms first then factories, then you would get by building factories first then farms, it would make no sense.

So well, take it with a grain of salt, it's just my personnal experimentation but I think there is a hidden size for planets which dictates how many buildings you can have eventually, max amount of mines/factories/whatever just determines which fraction of that total size can be allocated to each building type.

mianmar
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
Lance Corporal - Panzer IA
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Re: Production Frustration

Post by mianmar » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:47 pm

OK, I see your point about farms-factory vs factory-farms ratio, and that's is 100% true from my xp too, but science labs do not find their place in this bipolar approach.
Bipolar because mines count as factories (1 mine = 1 factory), so ve can safely conclude mines to count as factories, so only science labs are left here to solve.

so how do science labs consume space then?, because once you fill a planet with factories and farms to the max then the amount of blocked science labs is different on different planets, somewhere you have more blocked science labs somewhere less, (obviously this depends on total space for farms and factories together)

I believe, amount of built science labs affects the ratio of factory/farms, that is all 3 max space values are taken into account and the result is % space left rounded down to real number.

example:
30% of a planet's science space is occupied by science labs.
70% is left for factory/farms ratio.
from this point calculation goes as you said: 12 farms for 1 factory / 1 mine for 1 factory / 12 farms for 1 mine.
and once factories and farms are built to the max of their own remaining space, the remaining space for science labs is still left and does not affect factories and farms any more.

This explains why destroying science labs does not give space for farms and factories until you start destroying the initial 30% space given to science labs.

EDIT:
Problem is that a player does not have a clue on what is the initial space % given to science labs.
a player need to keep destroying labs until he hits initial space level, then you start releasing space for farms and factories.

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