New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

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deranzo
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New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by deranzo » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:33 pm

I have added some major additions to community update of the game. This also includes all previous updates.

Major additions:
1- "Heavy" weapon trait: If a unit with this weapon trait moves first, it fires with decreased accuracy because of weapon's weight/size.
2- "InfantryKiller" weapon trait: Flame and chemical based weapons have devastating effects for infantry such as Inferno Cannon, Chem Cannon, Heavy Flamer etc. So, a weapon with this trait does more damage to infantry than to vehicle. But also does less damage to vehicles than infantry. Approximately 1-5 point of more damage to infantry and 1-5 point of less damage to vehicles than older mechanic.
Also to compansate this mechanic, new "Infantry" unit trait is added to infantry and new "Vehicle" trait is added to all vehicles.
"TankHunter" weapon trait: This trait works with same mechanic as InfantryKiller with difference only for some anti-tank weapons of Orks.
3- "MoveAndShoot" unit trait: Some units are adapted to heavy weapons and they don't get effected from weapon's weight/size. So they can move and shoot with full efficency if this trait is written in their traits list.
4- "GrindingAdvance" unit trait: Some Leman Russ tank variants (Conqueror and Annihilator) can fire 2 times if they don't move or use only half of their movement point. But if they fire second time, they can't move anymore in that turn.

These all exist in Warhammer 40K 8th Edition Rules. Some of them may not be exactly same but all is very similar.

And lots of minor changes:
- All flame based weapons' (inferno cannon, inferno gun, chem cannon, heavy flamer, flamer) "accuracy per hex" stat changed to 0 to imitate "automatic hit" rule in tabletop. Weapon's overall accuracy still depends on user.
Regular Sentinel's name is changed to "Scout Sentinel".
- Armageddon Sentinel's "recon" trait is removed and spotting value decreased by 2 point.
- Valkyrie Transport is added.
- Siege trait is added to deathstrike missile due to its destructiveness.
- Deathstrike missile's strength is increased to 250, armour pierce to 80 and cost to 2050 to imitate its destructiveness and usable only once according to tabletop rules.
- 2 heavy bolters (aa) weapon is added to Sabre Gun Fire Support.
- Support trait is added to Trojan.
- Heavy bolter support (aa) weapon is added to Steel Legion Fire Support with heavy bolter squad.
- Missile launcher (aa) weapon is added to Steel Legion Fire Support with missile launcher squad.
- Leadership trait is added to Mega Armoured Nobz to imitate their "Keepin' Order" tabletop rule.
- Camo trait is added to Kommandoz to imitate their "Kunnin' Infiltrators" tabletop rule.
- Reconmove trait is added to Deffkoptas due to imitate their "Scoutin' Ahead" tabletop rule.
- Indirect weapon trait is added to Hyperios Launcher due to tabletop rules.
- Flamestorm Cannon's accuracy per hex penalty is decreased to 0 to imitate "automatic hit" rule in tabletop. Weapon's overall accuracy still depends on user.
- Ironclad Dreadnought's "2 Flamer" weapon is changed to "2 Heavy Flamers".
- Icarus Stormcannon Array's ground attacking version is added to Stalker.
- GrindingAdvance trait is added to Leman Russ Conqueror and Leman Russ Annihilator.
- Damocles' spotting is increased to 5.
- Stormlord's transport variant is added.
- All health points changed to tabletop values.
- All weapons' Strength, Armour Pierce and Shot Number values are changed to tabletop values.

New Minor Update:
- Melta weapon mechanic is added: If a unit with "Melta" weapon trait is adjacent to an enemy, that weapon does significantly more damage rather than firing 2 hex away. Now its more risk and gain strategy.
- Weapons' shot numbers are increased due to high health values of units to be more balanced (still they maybe need more increase).
- Weapons with TankHunter and InfantryKiller weapons do even more damage.
- According to feedback and difficult balancing issues, now all weapons can fire at flyer units but with greatly reduced accuracy. AA weapons don't get affacted by this.

Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zyvdzkuia8m6a ... ta.7z?dl=0

Backup all necessary files if you want to easily return to your previous version.

Important Notes:
1- This is a major update, so there is a little chance I may forget to add some weapon/unit traits. If you find something that shouldn't happen or occuring different then changelog , please report in here. Also if you see a "UNKNOWN WEAPON" in the unit's details, report that also.
2- I couldn't have tested all weapons and units with their new health and weapon values. It may be unbalanced in very hard difficulty. Test them while playing and modify values with your taste and send feedback please.
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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by nosebleednz » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:37 am

Nice one bro. Thanks

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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by Nimmy15 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:50 pm

Hi, first of all, thank you for your mod. I find it great.

Some observations, but i dont know if these things are meant to be like that, or just an oversight.

1. Standard Leman russ tank has only 3 hp and all his upgrade versions as well. All others are 5 units and 12 hp, except punisher which is 3 units and 12 HP.

2. Steel legion support units (mortar, bolter and AT) have 3hp, while space marine devastators have one hp.

3. Ork vehicles seem stronger than their tanks. For example Warbuggy has 8 str and 5 hp, while gunwagon has 7str and 4hp.

4. AA update overwrites everything from new tabletop rules update?

deranzo
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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by deranzo » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:16 pm

Nimmy15 wrote:Hi, first of all, thank you for your mod. I find it great.

Some observations, but i dont know if these things are meant to be like that, or just an oversight.

1. Standard Leman russ tank has only 3 hp and all his upgrade versions as well. All others are 5 units and 12 hp, except punisher which is 3 units and 12 HP.

2. Steel legion support units (mortar, bolter and AT) have 3hp, while space marine devastators have one hp.

3. Ork vehicles seem stronger than their tanks. For example Warbuggy has 8 str and 5 hp, while gunwagon has 7str and 4hp.

4. AA update overwrites everything from new tabletop rules update?
- Thanks for heads up, I have fixed Leman Russ' healths. Now all have 12 hp.

- For Steel Legion Support units: Yes, this is true while those having 3 hp and Space Marines having 1 hp. Its the same as 8th edition values. While Steel Legion units have less armour than Space Marines.
- For Orks: This is kind of correct too. Gunwagons have significantly more armour than Warbuggies.
But I'm open to new ideas. Armageddon may not fully fit to tabletop rules so it may need modification of tabletop values. So, if you think your values fit better, please share them.

- AA update was previous update. It doesn't contain tabletop update. Tabletop update contains every previous update. Its the latest one.
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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by Nimmy15 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:28 pm

deranzo wrote:
Nimmy15 wrote:Hi, first of all, thank you for your mod. I find it great.

Some observations, but i dont know if these things are meant to be like that, or just an oversight.

1. Standard Leman russ tank has only 3 hp and all his upgrade versions as well. All others are 5 units and 12 hp, except punisher which is 3 units and 12 HP.

2. Steel legion support units (mortar, bolter and AT) have 3hp, while space marine devastators have one hp.

3. Ork vehicles seem stronger than their tanks. For example Warbuggy has 8 str and 5 hp, while gunwagon has 7str and 4hp.

4. AA update overwrites everything from new tabletop rules update?
- Thanks for heads up, I have fixed Leman Russ' healths. Now all have 12 hp.

- For Steel Legion Support units: Yes, this is true while those having 3 hp and Space Marines having 1 hp. Its the same as 8th edition values. While Steel Legion units have less armour than Space Marines.
- For Orks: This is kind of correct too. Gunwagons have significantly more armour than Warbuggies.
But I'm open to new ideas. Armageddon may not fully fit to tabletop rules so it may need modification of tabletop values. So, if you think your values fit better, please share them.

- AA update was previous update. It doesn't contain tabletop update. Tabletop update contains every previous update. Its the latest one.

OK, I obviously misread how to apply patches. :)

You are right, on further testing, vehicles take more damage than tanks and die more easily. Problem was i was shooting them with laser destroyer. Laser destroyer seems underpowered. Standard leman russ does more damage to tanks than destroyer. I guess with increased hp of units, he'll need and increase of shots against targets? On last scenario leman russ was capable od dealing more damage to ork heavy tanks than destroyer.

Really love the infantry, they are great in the cover sections, but can get completely destroyed in the open if you are not careful. Punisher can delete entire squad of gretchin in one attack :D

Really, mod brings fresh new life to the game and I really love it. :)

deranzo
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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by deranzo » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:23 pm

OK, I obviously misread how to apply patches. :)

You are right, on further testing, vehicles take more damage than tanks and die more easily. Problem was i was shooting them with laser destroyer. Laser destroyer seems underpowered. Standard leman russ does more damage to tanks than destroyer. I guess with increased hp of units, he'll need and increase of shots against targets? On last scenario leman russ was capable od dealing more damage to ork heavy tanks than destroyer.

Really love the infantry, they are great in the cover sections, but can get completely destroyed in the open if you are not careful. Punisher can delete entire squad of gretchin in one attack :D

Really, mod brings fresh new life to the game and I really love it. :)
No problem ;)

Heavy Laser Destroyer Array has both Heavy and TankHunter weapon traits. And Destroyer Tank doesn't have MoveAndShoot unit trait, which means it fires with less accuracy (and so with less damage) if you move first. And it does less damage to infantry. Maybe you were firing at infantry? It does more damage to vehicles. Its being adapted as a vehicle / tank destroyer. So, try to fire without moving and at vehicles, not infantry.
Still, it's stats are Strength = 90, Armour Pierce = 30, Shots = 2 which does good damage to vehicles / tanks.
Even most basic Leman Russ has two weapons; Battle Cannon (Str = 80, AP = 20, Shots = 30) and a Lascannon (Str = 90, AP = 30, Shots = 1). Both of them don't have TankHunter trait which means they do same damage to infantry and vehicles.
Damaging situation depends on which unit you are firing upon and Heavy - InfantryKiller - TankHunter weapon traits and MoveAndShoot unit trait mechanics.

If still you think its underpowered, share your ideas please.

Yeah, like weapons Punisher Gatling Cannon, Vulcan Mega Bolter etc. are meant to be destroyer of whole infantry platoons in 40K universe. So now, its more close to tabletop rules.
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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by NightReaver » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:44 pm

Does this also have the previous mod you created that adds all the new units? Thanks!

deranzo
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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by deranzo » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:03 am

NightReaver wrote:Does this also have the previous mod you created that adds all the new units? Thanks!
Not yet, but I'm working on implementing new mechanics into that. I will publish it soon.
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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by Nimmy15 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:54 pm

deranzo wrote:
OK, I obviously misread how to apply patches. :)

You are right, on further testing, vehicles take more damage than tanks and die more easily. Problem was i was shooting them with laser destroyer. Laser destroyer seems underpowered. Standard leman russ does more damage to tanks than destroyer. I guess with increased hp of units, he'll need and increase of shots against targets? On last scenario leman russ was capable od dealing more damage to ork heavy tanks than destroyer.

Really love the infantry, they are great in the cover sections, but can get completely destroyed in the open if you are not careful. Punisher can delete entire squad of gretchin in one attack :D

Really, mod brings fresh new life to the game and I really love it. :)
No problem ;)

Heavy Laser Destroyer Array has both Heavy and TankHunter weapon traits. And Destroyer Tank doesn't have MoveAndShoot unit trait, which means it fires with less accuracy (and so with less damage) if you move first. And it does less damage to infantry. Maybe you were firing at infantry? It does more damage to vehicles. Its being adapted as a vehicle / tank destroyer. So, try to fire without moving and at vehicles, not infantry.
Still, it's stats are Strength = 90, Armour Pierce = 30, Shots = 2 which does good damage to vehicles / tanks.
Even most basic Leman Russ has two weapons; Battle Cannon (Str = 80, AP = 20, Shots = 30) and a Lascannon (Str = 90, AP = 30, Shots = 1). Both of them don't have TankHunter trait which means they do same damage to infantry and vehicles.
Damaging situation depends on which unit you are firing upon and Heavy - InfantryKiller - TankHunter weapon traits and MoveAndShoot unit trait mechanics.

If still you think its underpowered, share your ideas please.

Yeah, like weapons Punisher Gatling Cannon, Vulcan Mega Bolter etc. are meant to be destroyer of whole infantry platoons in 40K universe. So now, its more close to tabletop rules.
I tested it against tanks as well. Vanquisher suffer from the same problem, one attack and less damage because of increased HP. In tabletop Vanquisher canon is also armorbane, so you roll 2d6 to penetrate, which generally means that when he hits he penetrates. You can test their strengths in editor, in simulated battle. Vanquisher hits like a wet noodle. Honesty, you seem very knowledgeable in game mechanics, so perhaps you could edit that antitank trait and make it give like +10 damage vs tanks and vehicles or something, but at the same time lower the damage against infantry. Or increase the number of their attacks, but then definitely give them damage decrease against infantry. :)

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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by deranzo » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:10 pm

I tested it against tanks as well. Vanquisher suffer from the same problem, one attack and less damage because of increased HP. In tabletop Vanquisher canon is also armorbane, so you roll 2d6 to penetrate, which generally means that when he hits he penetrates. You can test their strengths in editor, in simulated battle. Vanquisher hits like a wet noodle. Honesty, you seem very knowledgeable in game mechanics, so perhaps you could edit that antitank trait and make it give like +10 damage vs tanks and vehicles or something, but at the same time lower the damage against infantry. Or increase the number of their attacks, but then definitely give them damage decrease against infantry. :)
Hmm, so you recommend strengthen Vanquisher Cannon's armour penetration? Values are same as tabletop but Armageddon hadn't being adapted to tabletop of course, so you may be right.
TankHunter and InfantyKiller trait buffs/debuffs are totally changeable to more suited values. But we have to be exact about values to not being overpowered/underpowered. So, I will need more data to be sure about how to change values. Can you give more detailed idea about how values should be about these traits?
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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by Nimmy15 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:37 pm

deranzo wrote:
I tested it against tanks as well. Vanquisher suffer from the same problem, one attack and less damage because of increased HP. In tabletop Vanquisher canon is also armorbane, so you roll 2d6 to penetrate, which generally means that when he hits he penetrates. You can test their strengths in editor, in simulated battle. Vanquisher hits like a wet noodle. Honesty, you seem very knowledgeable in game mechanics, so perhaps you could edit that antitank trait and make it give like +10 damage vs tanks and vehicles or something, but at the same time lower the damage against infantry. Or increase the number of their attacks, but then definitely give them damage decrease against infantry. :)
Hmm, so you recommend strengthen Vanquisher Cannon's armour penetration? Values are same as tabletop but Armageddon hadn't being adapted to tabletop of course, so you may be right.
TankHunter and InfantyKiller trait buffs/debuffs are totally changeable to more suited values. But we have to be exact about values to not being overpowered/underpowered. So, I will need more data to be sure about how to change values. Can you give more detailed idea about how values should be about these traits?
Honestly, I don't know. I you use the editor to test, Vanquisher tank needs to fire 4 times to destroy one standard Leman Russ. So that means 20 shots to kill one entire unit. Even if you increase the penetration, it does little. If you give him three shots like volcano canon, then Vanquisher with 500 experience can barely kill one Leman Russ. Still means five shots to kill a unit. Not that bad, when used with other units. Perhaps just giving him 3 shots and some damage modifier like +8 to damage to tanks and -8 to infantry, means that green vanquisher can reliably kill one tank per shot, and highly experienced can kill two with ease.

In the original, Laser Destroyer could do around 10 damage, but since HP were low, that means he could kill 3 Leman Russ tanks. In here, he barely dents one. :)

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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by deranzo » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:12 pm

Honestly, I don't know. I you use the editor to test, Vanquisher tank needs to fire 4 times to destroy one standard Leman Russ. So that means 20 shots to kill one entire unit. Even if you increase the penetration, it does little. If you give him three shots like volcano canon, then Vanquisher with 500 experience can barely kill one Leman Russ. Still means five shots to kill a unit. Not that bad, when used with other units. Perhaps just giving him 3 shots and some damage modifier like +8 to damage to tanks and -8 to infantry, means that green vanquisher can reliably kill one tank per shot, and highly experienced can kill two with ease.

In the original, Laser Destroyer could do around 10 damage, but since HP were low, that means he could kill 3 Leman Russ tanks. In here, he barely dents one. :)

I will work on all units, read codexes and implement necessary changes to weapons to be more balanced. This will take sometime but keep on touch ;)
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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by salex » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:16 pm

I'm thinking of getting this game, is this game active in the multiplayer department, also are there mods for other races like Tau etc ?

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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by deranzo » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:53 pm

salex wrote:I'm thinking of getting this game, is this game active in the multiplayer department, also are there mods for other races like Tau etc ?
Truly, game isn't very active at the moment.
There are some good mods. Tau and tyranids but they don't get updates anymore.
There are also my mods contain lots of new units for Imperial Guard and Space Marines. And I often update them with new units or mechanics from game updates. Look for them in Mods section. But ask questions about them in related topics. Here is only for newest game update.
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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by deranzo » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:07 am

I have developed new minor additions:
- Melta weapon mechanic is added: If a unit with "Melta" weapon trait is adjacent to an enemy, that weapon does significantly more damage rather than firing 2 hex away. Now its more risk and gain strategy.
- Weapons' shot numbers are increased due to high health values of units to be more balanced (still they maybe need more increase).
- Weapons with TankHunter and InfantryKiller weapons do even more damage.
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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by jabokiebean » Thu May 31, 2018 9:14 pm

Hi Thank you for these updates/mods make the game very fun :)

Curious with this update if UI reflects changes (Heavy, etc) as I just installed it to same directory as community version mod and I do not see any changes to the UI which would indicate that these new parameters are in effect.

For example:
1- leman russ annihilator does not indicate that it would fire twice
2- steel legion anti-tank support infantry weapons are not considered heavy
3 - no unit tagged with "tank killer" or "infantry killer"

is there something I am doing wrong or are these features just not documented in game?

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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by deranzo » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:34 pm

jabokiebean wrote:Hi Thank you for these updates/mods make the game very fun :)

Curious with this update if UI reflects changes (Heavy, etc) as I just installed it to same directory as community version mod and I do not see any changes to the UI which would indicate that these new parameters are in effect.

For example:
1- leman russ annihilator does not indicate that it would fire twice
2- steel legion anti-tank support infantry weapons are not considered heavy
3 - no unit tagged with "tank killer" or "infantry killer"

is there something I am doing wrong or are these features just not documented in game?
Hello jabokiebean.
UI doesn't show any new changes. Only in game mechanics. If you don't move with Annihilator, you will fire twice. All weapons' stats aren't shown either. But you should see necessary weapon and unit traits if you open weapons.whdat and unittypes.whdat files.
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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by deranzo » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:43 pm

According to feedback and difficult balancing issues, now all weapons can fire at flyer units but with greatly reduced accuracy. AA weapons don't get affacted by this.
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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by Japhet » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:00 pm

Nice, I think that's a better way to handle flyers and AA weapons. But it seems that the weapons.whdat is missing in the above download link.

By the way, do you think it's possible to create a "TitanKiller" trait that functions similar to your "TankHunter" trait, but works against titans?

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Re: New Tabletop Rules Update for Community Version (1.11)

Post by deranzo » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:16 am

Japhet wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:00 pm
Nice, I think that's a better way to handle flyers and AA weapons. But it seems that the weapons.whdat is missing in the above download link.

By the way, do you think it's possible to create a "TitanKiller" trait that functions similar to your "TankHunter" trait, but works against titans?
I didn't change anything in weapons.whdat, so it wasn't needed to upload weapons.whdat.
Titans are also vehicles so TankHunter also works for titans but they receive much less damage naturally. But I can create special trait just for titans in the next update.
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