Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.0

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Uhu
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by Uhu » Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:52 pm

While I see the point, while Tobruk and Alexandria should be an upgrade port, I think, with that logic, London port should be also such a point.
P210 wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:41 am
If Tripoli, Tobruk and Alexandria will be upgrade cities in NA (Tank upgrades are vital and shipping tanks back and forth between NA and Europe would break the desert war balance. At least for me.) then I vote YES :)
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slowgtp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by slowgtp » Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:51 pm

I have a suggestion on an addition for 2.0.

During the course of the war in the west, the Atlantic wall is slowly built (I.E pillboxes, forts) being awarded after certain points in time.

McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by McGuba » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:42 pm

Uhu wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:52 pm
While I see the point, while Tobruk and Alexandria should be an upgrade port, I think, with that logic, London port should be also such a point.
P210 wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:41 am
If Tripoli, Tobruk and Alexandria will be upgrade cities in NA (Tank upgrades are vital and shipping tanks back and forth between NA and Europe would break the desert war balance. At least for me.) then I vote YES :)
From a logical point of view, yes, From a gameplay point of view not so much, but I do not exlude the possibility.

However, I am thinking to add Helsinki: it does not have a rail connection so it should not really compete the German cities after the fall of Leningrad when it comes to upgrading German units. But it would certainly benefit the Finnish army, even though they have only limited (and late war) upgrade options. Moreso since I plan to take away all the transport options from the Finnish units so that to limit the use of this army to the north. Finland never officially joined the Axis and only aimed to reverse its territorial losses from the Winter War and to possibly expand its borders somewhat, especially into East Karelia. Therefore transfering Finnish units to far away theatres by train, air or sea is quite unrealistic in this historical context. Given that historically they even refused to assault Leningrad from the north and stopped their attack on Murmansk partly because of the US pressure to do so, I think it makes sense. But then they need an upgrade city within reach as well.
slowgtp wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:51 pm
I have a suggestion on an addition for 2.0.

During the course of the war in the west, the Atlantic wall is slowly built (I.E pillboxes, forts) being awarded after certain points in time.
I am not sure what you mean by this as several strongpoints and fortesses start to appear on the map from 1942-43-44, many of them in France, prior to the Allied invasion. And it is like that since v1.0.
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PeteMitchell_2
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:34 am

McGuba wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:42 pm
slowgtp wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:51 pm
I have a suggestion on an addition for 2.0.

During the course of the war in the west, the Atlantic wall is slowly built (I.E pillboxes, forts) being awarded after certain points in time.
I am not sure what you mean by this as several strongpoints and fortesses start to appear on the map from 1942-43-44, many of them in France, prior to the Allied invasion. And it is like that since v1.0.
Do you maybe mean this, this is different from the Atlantic Wall, not sure if it is reflected yet? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siegfried_Line
Last edited by PeteMitchell_2 on Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Comprehensive Battlefield Europe AAR:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=86481

slowgtp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by slowgtp » Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:44 pm

McGuba wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:42 pm
slowgtp wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:51 pm
I have a suggestion on an addition for 2.0.

During the course of the war in the west, the Atlantic wall is slowly built (I.E pillboxes, forts) being awarded after certain points in time.
I am not sure what you mean by this as several strongpoints and fortesses start to appear on the map from 1942-43-44, many of them in France, prior to the Allied invasion. And it is like that since v1.0.
What I mean is that during the course of the war, the Atlantic Wall gets slowly built up. I know that the French coast in this mod has always been the same since the beginning, as I've been playing your wonderful mod since day 1. For instance, as we get closer to D-Day in the mod, a couple more strongpoints/forts appear on the French coast to reflect the building of the Atlantic Wall.

Yrfin
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by Yrfin » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:24 pm

What do you think about noncombat losses (breakages, impossibility to evacuate) in the first months summer 41. It was from 30 to 50% of tanks losses.
Why ?! Why what !? Why not...

slowgtp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by slowgtp » Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:02 pm

Another question regarding unit upgrades: Is the fact that units like infantry are available for upgrade in 44 as opposed to 43 for game balance purposes?

Uhu
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by Uhu » Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:33 pm

Good point, I agree with both! And I have a third. ;) Can you restrain Finnish Air to Finnish space and to the line north of Leningrad until the fall of Leningrad? I think, with the same method as winter frost bites, it can be done, am I right? As I know, Finnish Air units did not attacked Soviet cities.
McGuba wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:42 pm
However, I am thinking to add Helsinki: it does not have a rail connection so it should not really compete the German cities after the fall of Leningrad when it comes to upgrading German units. But it would certainly benefit the Finnish army, even though they have only limited (and late war) upgrade options. Moreso since I plan to take away all the transport options from the Finnish units so that to limit the use of this army to the north. Finland never officially joined the Axis and only aimed to reverse its territorial losses from the Winter War and to possibly expand its borders somewhat, especially into East Karelia. Therefore transfering Finnish units to far away theatres by train, air or sea is quite unrealistic in this historical context. Given that historically they even refused to assault Leningrad from the north and stopped their attack on Murmansk partly because of the US pressure to do so, I think it makes sense. But then they need an upgrade city within reach as well.
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McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by McGuba » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:56 pm

slowgtp wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:44 pm
What I mean is that during the course of the war, the Atlantic Wall gets slowly built up. I know that the French coast in this mod has always been the same since the beginning, as I've been playing your wonderful mod since day 1. For instance, as we get closer to D-Day in the mod, a couple more strongpoints/forts appear on the French coast to reflect the building of the Atlantic Wall.
Ah, ok. In the next version it will be a bit different. Instead of forts there will be coastal batteries. These will be probably better as they will be in the artillery class meaning that it will be possible to repair them (replace their losses). So potentially they will survive longer and they will also provide defensive fire to ground units next to them. And there will be two more of these in France than forts are v1.9. Other than that I do not really want to increase the number of strongpoints/coastal batteries due to the lack of space at this map scale. The AI needs some room to maneuver and land its units on the coastal hexes as it is not as smart as a human player to make room to itself if needed.

Another reason for that is I would attempt to simulate that some of the Atlantic French ports (St. Nazaire, Lorient, La Rochelle) remained in German hands until the end of the war, but in my historical test plays so far I was unable to defend them. Maybe with these new coastal batteries it will be possible to keep some of them as the AI will hopefully move most of its units to the east and will not bother capturing them if there is a strong artillery class unit to defend the infantry holding the port. But, like many other things it will need to be tested.

Yrfin wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:24 pm
What do you think about noncombat losses (breakages, impossibility to evacuate) in the first months summer 41. It was from 30 to 50% of tanks losses.
I guess you mean for the Soviet side. I think it is already well simulated as many of the Sovet tanks (and other units) have 0 fuel for most of 1941-42 and some of them can be encircled and thus "destroyed" without a fight.

Also in the next version I will reduce the max fuel of several early war Soviet tank units to better simulate their unreliability. This will reduce their usefullness in general. Additionally, following Intenso's suggestion, the T-34/42 will be actually a bit less effective than the earlier T-34/41. It is due the result of the redeployment of the factories to the Ural and the general chaos that followed. Furthermore, early on Stalin was only concerned about the numbers produced and pressed the leaders of the factories as such but it resulted in the reduction of build quality. These were mainly fixed with the T-34/43.

Like I wrote before, there will be several other changes like this which would make the mod somewhat easier, so the effect of the improved fuel crisis and the inability to upgrade tanks at the frontline may not be so great. It is impossible to predict if the mod will be harder or easier at this point.

slowgtp wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 4:02 pm
Another question regarding unit upgrades: Is the fact that units like infantry are available for upgrade in 44 as opposed to 43 for game balance purposes?
Partly yes, but also due to historical reasons. Advanced German infantry weapons which justify such an upgrade like the Panzerfaust, Panzerschreck or Sturmgewehr 44 only became available in numbers from (mid) 1944. On the other hand the US introduced the bazooka earlier in late 1942/early 1943, which was also sent to the SU as part of Lend-Lease. In 1943 the US infantry had the semi-automatic M1 Garand which was more effective than the German bolt-action Kar98 rifle. And the Soviets also added large numbers of submachine guns and AT rifles to their infantry forces from 1943 and the British introduced the PIAT. In general, I believe that German infantry weapons (with the exception of the excellent MG-42 of course) were behind the Allied ones in the crucial year of 1943 and much of 1944 and it had to have an effect on their losses and the outcome of the war.

Uhu wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:33 pm
Good point, I agree with both! And I have a third. Can you restrain Finnish Air to Finnish space and to the line north of Leningrad until the fall of Leningrad? I think, with the same method as winter frost bites, it can be done, am I right? As I know, Finnish Air units did not attacked Soviet cities.
In theory, yes, it is possible to do so. But of course quite tricky due to the lack of AI zones. Several coordinate points need to be added to the map each with a radius so that they enclose but do not reach the the northern areas. Then any Finnish air unit which enters them would suffer losses. But these areas would overlap each other at some places multiplying their effect there. And then the player should know the action limit of the Finnish air units exactly. So maybe this area should be marked on the map. But then there would be too much information presented which would increase confusion. And then a message should be added every time a Finnish unit crosses this border and suffers losses. Which means the increase of message boxes and there are already a bit too many.

And I do not see why it would only last until the fall of Leningrad. Finland never had the intention to join the Axis and do whatever the German high command wanted so I do not think they would have changed their minds in case Leningrad was captured.

EDIT:
Actually, as I wrote, if we really want to be historical all Finnish units should be restricted to the north and should not even go further east of Petrozhavods/Lake Onega or enter Leningrad. Which means they should not be used to capture Archangelsk in the far northeast.
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Yrfin
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by Yrfin » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:15 pm

McGuba wrote: I guess you mean for the Soviet side. I think it is already well simulated as many of the Sovet tanks (and other units) have 0 fuel for most of 1941-42 and some of them can be encircled and thus "destroyed" without a fight.

Also in the next version I will reduce the max fuel of several early war Soviet tank units to better simulate their unreliability. This will reduce their usefullness in general.
Tanks need Fuel, Infantry need Rest.
What do you think about "Fuel for Infantry". I think about 24.
At "Fuel" i mean "Maintenance".
Why ?! Why what !? Why not...

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by Rudankort » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:00 pm

Hello All!

Here is an experimental version of the game which should be able to handle 256 zones. It should be backwards compatible with any existing content, but the opposite is not true: older versions of the game will not load stuff created with this version. Also, in the editor you will see hex count in each zone, added in [] after zone number.

http://flashback.games/files/ScenarioEditor_132.zip
http://flashback.games/files/PanzerCorps_132.zip
http://flashback.games/files/PanzerCorps_132_Steam.zip

Make sure you have necessary backups before editing anything with this version. Let me know if you experience any issues.

Intenso82
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by Intenso82 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:40 pm

Rudankort wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:00 pm
Here is an experimental version of the game which should be able to handle 256 zones.
Big thanks!
I will test. :wink:
[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941 - http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=75743

Uhu
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by Uhu » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:24 pm

I think, it is the part of the history vs. what if discussion. If you make a game/mod, where the player can replay only the historical events, with minor differences, than it is important to stay at historical facts. If there are several options to make what if situations, than it is a fine balance to add such options or not.
I think, at this point, if the Finns are restricted until the Fall of Leningrad, that means, until the historical reality, they react historical. But when the what if option is triggered, they are allowed also some what if options. You do not know, what would happened in the reality - before the Winter War, Finns were against any Axis cooperation, but after that, they even allowed German troops to use their territories, airfields, etc., so...
By the way, with this analogy, I also do not agree, that the motorized options for heavy Romanian and Hungarian guns were cut out sometimes ago - I think, it's the same option, than other Axis, German upgrades - if the player want to pay for the extra resources, because he can (while historically the "player" did not have the resources, therefore he did not had them), than it should be allowed to do so. Like with many German gun transport upgrade too.
McGuba wrote:
Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:56 pm
Actually, as I wrote, if we really want to be historical all Finnish units should be restricted to the north and should not even go further east of Petrozhavods/Lake Onega or enter Leningrad. Which means they should not be used to capture Archangelsk in the far northeast.
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Uhu
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by Uhu » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:28 pm

Well, tank you very much! :)
Rudankort wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:00 pm
Hello All!

Here is an experimental version of the game which should be able to handle 256 zones. It should be backwards compatible with any existing content, but the opposite is not true: older versions of the game will not load stuff created with this version. Also, in the editor you will see hex count in each zone, added in [] after zone number.

http://flashback.games/files/ScenarioEditor_132.zip
http://flashback.games/files/PanzerCorps_132.zip
http://flashback.games/files/PanzerCorps_132_Steam.zip

Make sure you have necessary backups before editing anything with this version. Let me know if you experience any issues.
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by guille1434 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:54 pm

Rudankort wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:00 pm
Hello All!

Here is an experimental version of the game which should be able to handle 256 zones. It should be backwards compatible with any existing content, but the opposite is not true: older versions of the game will not load stuff created with this version. Also, in the editor you will see hex count in each zone, added in [] after zone number.

http://flashback.games/files/ScenarioEditor_132.zip
http://flashback.games/files/PanzerCorps_132.zip
http://flashback.games/files/PanzerCorps_132_Steam.zip

Make sure you have necessary backups before editing anything with this version. Let me know if you experience any issues.
Super-Excellent Alex!! Thanks a huge lot for listening to one of the "most wanted" improvements to Pz Corps 1 asked by the fans! Today is a very happy day for me and, I think, for some other very talented modders! :-) :D

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by McGuba » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:01 pm

Rudankort wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:00 pm
Hello All!

Here is an experimental version of the game which should be able to handle 256 zones.
This is of course some excellent news! On behalf of the players of this and other similar mods here comes a massive thank you for this! :D

It is indeed very rare that a 7 years old game gets this level of follow up and maintenance from the main developer, so two thumbs up!!!


If all goes well, this will definitely help to make the mod more stable and to potentially give it more content. Due to the limited number of AI zones I had to add more than one function to most AI zones, which in some cases lead to unwanted AI behaviour. On the other hand, it was a lot of fun to squeeze the maximum out of it with this limitation, so part of the fun is gone now. :D

However, since I have just basically finished the next version and about to start some initial testing, I think I will look into the new possibilites later. The next release will bring some significant changes and some of them may not even stay. Some of them will make the mod possibly harder, while others easier. It is impossible to say now how they will affect the overall difficulty. I would like to see first how these current changes affect the mod before making any further changes being made possible by this new exe. So the actual Road Map looks like this:

1. intial testing of the new version by me, followed by a (possibly limited) release, while keeping the current v1.9 as the recommended stable version for new and casual players
2. after any necessary changes and fixes are made to the next version followed by extensive testing it can become the new stable version
3. looking into further changes made possible by this new exe:
- first I would eliminate all those double-triple-multiple use AI zones to make the mod as it is more stable
- then add some more zones to make the AI even more responsive to the actions of the player, thereby improving its effectiveness at the strategic level
- then look into other possible uses like adding more historical events, potentially more alternative history events as well
- investigate further uses: for example a potential Allied version of the mod - with this increased number of AI zones it might be possible to make the AI play effectively from the Axis side as well
4. a lot of testing, of course. I expect that AI turns will become even longer as the AI will have to calculate even more variables and possiblities. But AI turn should be kept reasonably short. For some players it is already too long. :| So again, there has to be a compromise in the end.

Yrfin wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:15 pm
Tanks need Fuel, Infantry need Rest.
What do you think about "Fuel for Infantry". I think about 24.
At "Fuel" i mean "Maintenance".
I was thinking about this ealier and also about giving "fuel" ("oats" or food) to cavalry and horse transports. It would certainly make some sense, but it would also have disadvantages. For example currently a fundamental element of this mod, the so-called fuel crisis only affects ground units which use fuel by reducing it by a small amount in each turn. I would like to keep infantry, cavalry and horse transports unaffected by this crisis so that the players can act accordingly: potentially downgrade some of their mechanised units to horse drawn ones, and use trains as primary longer range transports of mechanized units as it historically happened to the Wehrmacht in 44-45. Another disadvantage would be player reaction: this mod has already introduced a lot of gameplay changes that by now it should have its own rule book. And more changes are to come with the next version. And I am pretty sure that a lot of players would not like the idea that infantry units now have fuel. Also it would further slow down gameplay as infantry is slower than motorized units anyway, and now they would also need to stop sometimes for "rest". That way for example reaching Moscow in 1941 would become even harder, if not impossible.
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by asuser » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:55 am

Rudankort wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:00 pm
Hello All!

Here is an experimental version of the game which should be able to handle 256 zones.
Thank you Mr. Rudankort! :D
A long awaited update for the game and for my own mod activities.
PC is still alive and well.

Greetings!

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by glaude1955 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:18 am

Thank you Mr. Rudankort for this wonderful improvement. :D
A new life for Panzer Corps 1 :!:
Hopefully our modders will have the strength and patience to resume their beautiful mods.

Regards

Yves

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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by alex1515 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:19 am

is it available now?

regards,
Alex
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.9

Post by Yrfin » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:08 pm

With Mega Fix from Mr. Rudankort (256 Zone ! Thanks), we will be able to see in future version BF:
- Murmansk on Map (and Arctic Convoys perhaps )
- Spain in action (Gibraltar) ?

Few suggestion about Equip.
1. Wehr AT was ALL motorized (Guderian was agly on it). So NO MORE HORSE for AT :)
2. Small gun like 37-57 mm can use shrapnel. So SA must be 3-4.
Lets see:
- MG34 about 100 bullets/min (practical).
- 37 mm PaK. 0.6 kg/10 g = 60 bullets x 20 shot/min = 1200 bullets/min. Its a MINI-GUN ;)
- 57 mm ZiS-2. 324 bullets x 10.8 g at Shot !

Any suggestion ?
Why ?! Why what !? Why not...

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