Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Order of Battle is a series of operational WW2 games starting with the Pacific War and then on to Europe!

Moderators: The Artistocrats, Order of Battle Moderators

terminator
Major-General - Jagdtiger
Major-General - Jagdtiger
Posts: 2976
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:48 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by terminator » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:27 pm

Purchase OK :

Screenshot 1064.jpg
Screenshot 1064.jpg (725.53 KiB) Viewed 1704 times


Nuclear Bomb tested Ok :

Screenshot 1065.png
Screenshot 1065.png (626.46 KiB) Viewed 1699 times

bebro
The Artistocrats
The Artistocrats
Posts: 2933
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:50 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by bebro » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:39 pm

Good catch.

Personally I'd rather not give this powerful unit for free at all - but the help text of the spec says clearly it adds one, so a free one looks clearly intended.

I'll add that to bugtracker tommorrow.

TheFilthyCasual
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:56 am

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by TheFilthyCasual » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:01 am

bebro wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:39 pm
Good catch.

Personally I'd rather not give this powerful unit for free at all - but the help text of the spec says clearly it adds one, so a free one looks clearly intended.

I'll add that to bugtracker tommorrow.
Ok I'd really like to know:

You say you wouldn't make it free, yet whoever made the spec for it said it would be free. Now, is that just your opinion, or did the person who made the specs not, you know, ask before writing that in the spec description?

I ask because I've several times seen specs completely out of sync with the game itself, like how the Meteor didn't use to be in the game but there was a spec that was supposed to give you access to it that as a result did absolutely nothing. It made me wonder whether you have like, one lonely guy doing all the specs who never talks to the rest of the devs so he has no idea what they're doing or something.

GabeKnight
Major-General - Tiger I
Major-General - Tiger I
Posts: 2348
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:24 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by GabeKnight » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:16 am

TheFilthyCasual wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:01 am
It made me wonder whether you have like, one lonely guy doing all the specs who never talks to the rest of the devs so he has no idea what they're doing or something.
That's something you shouldn't have discovered. Could someone please edit this part out? For... um ... corporate security reasons... :P

terminator
Major-General - Jagdtiger
Major-General - Jagdtiger
Posts: 2976
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:48 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by terminator » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:17 am

I think that the first Atombomber should be give for free. Do not forget that he can be used only once. Seen its very high price(500 RP), it is difficult to buy the second.

Andy2012
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 1757
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:55 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:40 am

TheFilthyCasual wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:01 am
It made me wonder whether you have like, one lonely guy doing all the specs who never talks to the rest of the devs so he has no idea what they're doing or something.
This operation is run exclusively by (and for) lonely guys never talking to each other or other people in general. Communication is poison, the outside world is evil, we shun the sunlight and obsess about hexagonal shapes. Think of Amish with laptops, but less capable at woodworking. Yeah. :mrgreen:

Jokes aside, the bigger the game gets, the more likely something will get dropped with each DLC and has to be patched.

bebro
The Artistocrats
The Artistocrats
Posts: 2933
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:50 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by bebro » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:45 am

TheFilthyCasual wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:01 am
You say you wouldn't make it free, yet whoever made the spec for it said it would be free. Now, is that just your opinion, or did the person who made the specs not, you know, ask before writing that in the spec description?
It is my opinion - that is why I added "personally" to my remark.

People in the team do not need to ask everyone about every decision they make in their specific field, that would be absurd. There can be always differences on some aspects, that is pretty normal.
GabeKnight wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:16 am
That's something you shouldn't have discovered. Could someone please edit this part out? For... um ... corporate security reasons... :P
That is disingenuous. People can always post if they see a bug, in fact constructive feedback - whether positive or negative - is helpful for us.
terminator wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:17 am
I think that the first Atombomber should be give for free. Do not forget that he can be used only once. Seen its very high price(500 RP), it is difficult to buy the second.
I added this to bugtracker yesterday, and after some clarification I understand the instant free bomber will not be removed.

bebro
The Artistocrats
The Artistocrats
Posts: 2933
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:50 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by bebro » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:49 am

Andy2012 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:40 am
This operation is run exclusively by (and for) lonely guys never talking to each other or other people in general. Communication is poison, the outside world is evil, we shun the sunlight and obsess about hexagonal shapes. Think of Amish with laptops, but less capable at woodworking.
Lol. But we do obsess about hexagonal shapes, we just made it our jobs :)

Mojko
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:04 am

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Mojko » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:18 pm

Finished the Falaise pocket scenario. I really enjoyed it as it's so different from the eastern front. I was able to save 12 units in total, which is all of the units that actually tried to retreat. The remaining 3 units had several turns to retreat but they showed an aggressive behaviour instead. For battered comrades, they sure showed some unexpected aggression towards the enemy and suicidal tendencies. My recommendation is to revisit the scenario triggers and switch them to be either passive or trying to retreat. The above mentioned units are:

- pak AT gun in the north west
- regular infantry in the west
- marder tank destroyer in the south west

Also, there could be a extra secondary objective for saving additional units.

MVP of the battle are the waffen SS engineers who blew up several bridges and layed minefields in the south, slowing down the advance of the enemy without firing a single bullet.

Looking forward to the next one.
Author and maintainer of Unit Navigator Tool for Order Of Battle (http://mfendek.byethost16.com/)

conboy
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Elite Panzer IIIL
Posts: 424
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:18 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by conboy » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:10 pm

I have played the first 4 scenarios on level 4 and I do not think they are too easy! Hits all the right notes in order - terror, freak-out, rage, hope, vengeance. just right. I really like having so many auxiliary units this time around - saves a little time and gives some units I would never splurge on like the tank killers. i'm playing more tank-heavy than usual, need the armor this time.
My compliments to the Artistocrats and the beta gamers who helped on this!
Only thing I don't like is having to chase the reds all over the board after you whip them, but thass okay, I don't see any other way to set up a defensive scenario.
Good Job!
conboy

bebro
The Artistocrats
The Artistocrats
Posts: 2933
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:50 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by bebro » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:50 am

Thx for the feedback guys!


Mojko: some of those aux units are intended to stay behind to enable the rest to disengage. The player brings in his stuff in batches, and needs to keep the whole corridor open, but those few poor aux units act as immediate rearguard to delay the allied advance and pursuit.

This rearguard needs to be active at least for a while, and when active (=not set to idle or static) AI controlled units tend to be overly aggressive sometimes indeed, which can be hard to control. But yes, I can set them to retreat as well later (if that allows them to survive is another question as they'll still face the initial onslaught)

Andy2012
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 1757
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:55 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:04 pm

Mojko wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:18 pm

MVP of the battle are the waffen SS engineers who blew up several bridges and layed minefields in the south, slowing down the advance of the enemy without firing a single bullet.

That is very clever. Why havent I thought of this? Guess I am so stuck in my Jagdpanther rut...cant see the forest for the trees. :D

Mojko
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Master Sergeant - Bf 109E
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:04 am

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Mojko » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:49 am

Andy2012 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:04 pm
That is very clever. Why havent I thought of this? Guess I am so stuck in my Jagdpanther rut...cant see the forest for the trees. :D
Engineers are one of the most underrated units but are actually really good when used properly :D .

I finished Paris 44 scenario. More bridges to blow up for my engineers. I decided to ignore orders on this one and ended up holding all objectives including Le Havre. This means that the secondary objective to evacuate Paris failed, but I don't really care about the reward as I have enough RPs already :D .

Questions/notes for this scenario:

- why is Le Havre marked as a secondary objective (silver flag), but there is no secondary objective tied to it?
- there is a large force of enemy units on the west side of the map, but they never leave their initial positions
- could someone please clarify how does the "evacuate Paris" objective work? I tried to not have any units on the marked tiles, but the objective failed nonetheless
Author and maintainer of Unit Navigator Tool for Order Of Battle (http://mfendek.byethost16.com/)

terminator
Major-General - Jagdtiger
Major-General - Jagdtiger
Posts: 2976
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:48 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by terminator » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:03 am

Mojko wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:49 am
Questions/notes for this scenario:
- could someone please clarify how does the "evacuate Paris" objective work? I tried to not have any units on the marked tiles, but the objective failed nonetheless
There is a bug with the objective "evacuate Paris" : http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 72&t=88550

bebro
The Artistocrats
The Artistocrats
Posts: 2933
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:50 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by bebro » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:40 am

Re troops in west don't leave: there are often safeguard forces left behind, esp. at important points giving supply, or near air fields etc.

Without those some creative players may find an elegant way to rob the AI of supply or make suicide paradrops to destroy grounded airplanes, which could be very smart, but also destructive to gameplay or create ahistoric outcomes you don't want to encourage.

It depends on the battle you want to depict - in a clear defensive setting the options to just mount attacks like these may be more limited than in a more open back-and-forth battle.

terminator
Major-General - Jagdtiger
Major-General - Jagdtiger
Posts: 2976
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:48 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by terminator » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:48 am

bebro wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:40 am
Re troops in west don't leave: there are often safeguard forces left behind, esp. at important points giving supply, or near air fields etc.

Without those some creative players may find an elegant way to rob the AI of supply or make suicide paradrops to destroy grounded airplanes, which could be very smart, but also destructive to gameplay or create ahistoric outcomes you don't want to encourage.

It depends on the battle you want to depict - in a clear defensive setting the options to just mount attacks like these may be more limited than in a more open back-and-forth battle.
Is it normal that these 4 units have no AI ?

Screenshot 1124.jpg
Screenshot 1124.jpg (118.23 KiB) Viewed 1260 times

bebro
The Artistocrats
The Artistocrats
Posts: 2933
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:50 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by bebro » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:51 am

I need to check that - it could result from the change that removed the landing.

Andy2012
Order of Battle Moderator
Order of Battle Moderator
Posts: 1757
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:55 pm

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Andy2012 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:32 pm

Alright, the Wehrmacht has kind of escaped the self-imposed Falaise trap. (If you havent already, read up on this harebrained attack on wikipedia. Mindboggling. :shock: ) Anyways, I had a ton of fun and this one is pretty difficult. Maybe I'll try Mojkos engineer strategy next time. 8)

Once again, I left the tanks at home and relied on my Jagdpanthers and Nebelwerfers as the backbone of my army here. Several things to keep in mind: As usual, posturing - keep a Jagdpanther behind your inf, ideally with his flanks covered, Nebelwerfer behind. Attacks will be coming from west (generally), early on from the north towards Falaise and Argentan by Free Polish forces and later in the very south towards Argentan by Americans. This one is easily forgotten and can knock you out quickly. As soon as you get the message that you can withdraw from Flers and so on, do it. You cannot hold, believe me. Upgrade to Me262 if possible and focus on US planes to get that secondary objective.
A fighting withdrawal is best done along roads and once again in a closed, carefully set-up formation. AT in the middle setting the pace through wooded areas, inf covering the rearguard. As soon as you have reached defensible positions behind rivers around your primary cities, you will almost automatically shorten the front and thus achieve fire concentration with your arty and have a much easier time to hold.
Minor bugs: If you save your allies, the text message says "catastrophy averted", should be 'catastrophe'. Also, in the briefing for the next mission, "enemy superiority pays its toll" is wrong, correct would be 'takes its toll'.
On to Paris, then.
Screenshot 238.jpg
Screenshot 238.jpg (536.16 KiB) Viewed 1228 times

Halvralf
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Staff Sergeant - StuG IIIF
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:13 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by Halvralf » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:10 pm

Good job Andy, and good feedback. I'm at Wyazma with a new core atm and not fielding 4 SS Art only 3 this time... :wink:
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."

CoolDTA
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Sergeant First Class - Panzer IIIL
Posts: 396
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:52 am

Re: Mistakes vere made, mein Fuhrer - Endsieg Review and Discuss

Post by CoolDTA » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:39 pm

Thanks for the AAR, Andy! :) Finally I caught up with you and finished Falaise. Indeed a nice change after the Eastern Front and a very good scenario. I left my SS artillery home and instead brought back my two SS tanks from Panzerkrieg. I also took a Wirbelwind (very good unit) for them and Engineers to do something similar as Mojko, but in the end laid only few mines. For me the southern attack by the Americans and Free French didn't happen, because they were... well, dead. :twisted: A pre-emptive attack led by 3 x Gebirgsjäger saw all the enemies melt away. Those guys have a great movement not only in winter but also in these forested areas. You can easily keep Domfront throughout the scenario. The enemies just can't dislodge the aux heavy infantry and it is a useful roadblock. Btw., I think Gabe will probably clean the map in this one. :D

Post Reply

Return to “Order of Battle Series”