Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

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proline
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by proline » Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:27 pm

Rudankort wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:01 pm
proline wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:52 pm
Btw, did you ever change anything to make bridging engineers work other than on scenarios specifically designed for them? Like exempting them from the river move penalty so they can move onto a river from two hexes away would make a big difference.
I still consider bridge engineers a specialized unit, which is unlikely to participate in each and every scenario, but yes, their movement table is adjusted, so that they don't need to stand next to a river in order to enter it.
Thanks. I don't expect them to be viable in every scenario or for every player to use them, but as it stands right now unless the scenario is set up to absolutely require them, it's usually faster to just bring another artillery unit and blast your way across at a bridge. It takes a long time to safely get bridging engineers into position, and once there they are easily countered just by putting a conscript or other cheap unit next to them, and then there's the fact that if you bridge away from the roads all your other units will be slowed down by the terrain on the way to the bridge. They will be more interesting if they are at least an option on more scenarios.

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by Kerensky » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:14 pm

mj43 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:28 pm
Whats next ? The Landkreuzer P.1000 Ratte ?
:twisted:

Retributarr
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by Retributarr » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:42 pm

Kerensky wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:14 pm
mj43 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:28 pm
Whats next ? The Landkreuzer P.1000 Ratte ?
:twisted:
Translation (My Interpretation) of Message!:
If your game thinking, development and design is going totally ridiculous, why-not go absolutely crazy and include other speculative alternate insane items into the game as well as the above mentioned items listed that were 'Hitlers' fantasy Wunder-Waffe/Weapons ...for example his "Fantasy-Gigantico-Tanks".

maguro
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by maguro » Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:58 am

The shroud option is a nice option to have. I'm guessing you'll go into more detail in the future, but when designing a scenario is there an option to decide how much of the map is shrouded?

Rudankort
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by Rudankort » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:18 am

maguro wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:58 am
The shroud option is a nice option to have. I'm guessing you'll go into more detail in the future, but when designing a scenario is there an option to decide how much of the map is shrouded?
In the editor you can actually paint shroud on a hex-by-hex basis, like you do with other zones. You can also paint it for each player individually.

maguro
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by maguro » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:52 pm

Rudankort wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:18 am
maguro wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:58 am
The shroud option is a nice option to have. I'm guessing you'll go into more detail in the future, but when designing a scenario is there an option to decide how much of the map is shrouded?
In the editor you can actually paint shroud on a hex-by-hex basis, like you do with other zones. You can also paint it for each player individually.
Sounds very practical! Thanks for clarifying. Everything is looking great so far!

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:58 pm

proline wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:27 pm
Rudankort wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:01 pm
proline wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:52 pm
Btw, did you ever change anything to make bridging engineers work other than on scenarios specifically designed for them? Like exempting them from the river move penalty so they can move onto a river from two hexes away would make a big difference.
I still consider bridge engineers a specialized unit, which is unlikely to participate in each and every scenario, but yes, their movement table is adjusted, so that they don't need to stand next to a river in order to enter it.
Thanks. I don't expect them to be viable in every scenario or for every player to use them, but as it stands right now unless the scenario is set up to absolutely require them, it's usually faster to just bring another artillery unit and blast your way across at a bridge. It takes a long time to safely get bridging engineers into position, and once there they are easily countered just by putting a conscript or other cheap unit next to them, and then there's the fact that if you bridge away from the roads all your other units will be slowed down by the terrain on the way to the bridge. They will be more interesting if they are at least an option on more scenarios.
They used to be much stronger in PG.

In reality, while they were specialized, they were still considered to be part of the combat troops, not the pure support troops: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truppenga ... _Wehrmacht

I remember there was also a discussion about combat engineers on this forum at one point in time… unfortunately, I can’t find it right now as the search timed out.

PanzerCro
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by PanzerCro » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:37 pm

When will Dev Diary 10 be out ? And I hope it will be about campaing :) Pleasee !!! :)

dmwban
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by dmwban » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:47 pm

I think there are two camps of players. Those who put historical accuracy above balanced gameplay or fictional what-if scenarios and those who like balanced gameplay and fictional what-if scenarios more than historical accuracy. On my part I tend to be in the second camp. I enjoy historical accuracy only as far as concerning the weaponry and their availability, not the actual orders of battle or the course of a battle. That's why I do not enjoy HOI. It's too accurate in terms of historical events and does not provide the flexibility I would like to have. That's why I prefer the civilization series over the HOI/EU series at any time. History buffs like reenactment or improving historical events with the knowledge we have today, which is not realistic either. The history inspired gamers like to write a total new history of it's own - their own game. So the question can be further reduced to: is it history or is it a game? I'm for a game with historical background, not history packed in a game.

Retributarr
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by Retributarr » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:21 pm

dmwban wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:47 pm
I think there are two camps of players. Those who put historical accuracy above balanced gameplay or fictional what-if scenarios and those who like balanced gameplay and fictional what-if scenarios more than historical accuracy. On my part I tend to be in the second camp. I enjoy historical accuracy only as far as concerning the weaponry and their availability, not the actual orders of battle or the course of a battle. That's why I do not enjoy HOI. It's too accurate in terms of historical events and does not provide the flexibility I would like to have. That's why I prefer the civilization series over the HOI/EU series at any time. History buffs like reenactment or improving historical events with the knowledge we have today, which is not realistic either. The history inspired gamers like to write a total new history of it's own - their own game. So the question can be further reduced to: is it history or is it a game? I'm for a game with historical background, not history packed in a game.
Well said dmwban!!!.
I too...like to play the true "Historical Game", right down to the last 'gritty-detail', however...at some point...I also would like to explore other possibilities, not necessarily 'Fictional' (Though..."Fictional" is also really not out of the question), but I am "Most Interested" in the very reasonable near-actual possibilities...that very nearly...really did almost take place...that could have had a dramatic outcome/change in WWII.

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:48 pm

I kind of agree overall...

What I never really understood is why/how you should be able to achieve DV after DV but still end up defending Berlin (however, then with an army full of Tiger IIs, Elefants and Maus)... :roll: :mrgreen:

proline
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by proline » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:16 am

PeteMitchell_2 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:48 pm
I kind of agree overall...

What I never really understood is why/how you should be able to achieve DV after DV but still end up defending Berlin (however, then with an army full of Tiger IIs, Elefants and Maus)... :roll: :mrgreen:
Your question could be rephrased as "why didn't the designers make an infinite number of campaigns, where the Germans win Stalingrad but lose Moscow 43, win Stalingrad and Moscow 43 but lose d-day, win all those but the allies eventually break out from Italy, etc.".

The answer should be obvious- they did make speculative campaigns where the Germans do better than they historically did such as Afrka Korps, Sealion, and the Vanilla campaign, but they didn't make an infinite number of them because our planet has a finite number of resources and because humans live a finite amount of time.

maguro
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by maguro » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:43 am

PeteMitchell_2 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:19 pm
Rudankort wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:27 pm
PeteMitchell_2 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:46 pm
Will the game be able to support big maps as well, e.g. as with the current Battlefield Europe mod there are 175x113 hexes while Northern Scandinavia and Kola Peninsula with Murmansk (as well as parts of the Persian Corridor) are not even on the map yet... so let's say can the new PzC2 game support maps with around 200x150 hexes (and how many units max)? :mrgreen:
We use converted map from Battlefield Europe as one of our stress tests. I must admit that right now performance with this map is not stellar, and it uses lots of memory. :) We may need to break the map into pieces, unload/reload them on demand etc. At some point in development I hope to revisit this problem.
Thanks Rudankort for taking the time to reply to our questions.

I am not sure I fully understand what breaking the map into pieces and/or unloading/reloading them on demand may mean “in practical terms” when playing a map of that size with such an amazing mod... and I also don’t really have to… :lol:

However, if it takes too much time/effort to fix it right now… I would like to suggest to prepare PzC2 in such a way that it is sufficiently scalable in future, i.e. so that PzC2 could be adjusted in way (in future) to be able to accommodate such a map/mod/DLC as part of a later/next version release, please. :D
Count me in as another who is hoping big maps play well in PzC 2. I really like the Battlefield Europe-style campaigns in the current PzC.

martiniiirichard
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by martiniiirichard » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:50 pm

Panzer Corps

I like what I am seeing. I am open to new ideas and new concepts. But, the meat and potatoes of what I want to hear more about is AI behavior and the feel and type of grand campaign you are planning. Are we talking like grand campaign in panzer corps with epic battles, slowly building up a core, and difficulty spikes? Huge map variety and weather mattering? The grand camapign is so well done. Hand crafted maps, excellent counter attacks, terrain was a big feature, weather mattered, and several choices available to the player on type of core and how to tackle the maps were all crucial to making the grand campaign incredible. If you can replicate that, everything else won’t matter. It’s all bells and whistles.

Richard

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by martiniiirichard » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:50 pm

Panzer Corps

I like what I am seeing. I am open to new ideas and new concepts. But, the meat and potatoes of what I want to hear more about is AI behavior and the feel and type of grand campaign you are planning. Are we talking like grand campaign in panzer corps with epic battles, slowly building up a core, and difficulty spikes? Huge map variety and weather mattering? The grand camapign is so well done. Hand crafted maps, excellent counter attacks, terrain was a big feature, weather mattered, and several choices available to the player on type of core and how to tackle the maps were all crucial to making the grand campaign incredible. If you can replicate that, everything else won’t matter. It’s all bells and whistles.

Richard

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by AceDuceTrey » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:42 pm

If I were King, I would like to see PC2 have an "infinite" number of potential campaigns/scenarios by allowing the player(s) all sorts of options on who, where, and when they attack. I would still insist on (even if I had to modify the scenarios) historically accurate force structures, terrain, weather, etc. at the start times of the scenarios. I.e., what if Germany earlier/later/did not attack Poland on 1 Sep'39? Germany with a historically representative military might wait longer to increase it's force size. Maybe Germany would attack Russia in 1940 instead. To truly represent the roles performed on a modern battlefield that should be incorporated into PC2 I offer the following (per US Army doctrine) with suggested ways to implement.
The 5 Continuity of Effort roles: Those actions on the battlefield to maintain continuous combat operations.
a- Command and control. Commanders/Command Post Vans (trucks) would transform into static Headquarters (HQ) and back, where they could extend Lines of Communications (LOC) along all road and rail lines in friendly territory.
b- Sustainment. HQ units would spawn Support Trucks that would carry a limited ammo/fuel/maintenance capability to units; or, transform into networked/unlimited static Depots and back, at costs for supply and repairs. Captured population centers
would be able to provide some fuel and limited repair.
c- Military Engineering. Construction Engineer units would build/repair/destroy field fortifications, airfields, bridges, ports and other facilities at specified costs.
d- Reserves. Replacement forces could be "abstractly" represented by allowing support trucks/depots to reconstitute damaged forces.
e- Rear Area Security. These units could be "abstractly" represented by allowing HQs and population centers to spawn them at a cost.
The 5 Operational roles (in order of employment): Those actions on the battlefield to support continuous combat operations.
0- Recon, intel, surveillance, and Target Acquisition. RISTA are the actions performed to obtain information on the enemy's locations, strength/weakness, and potential/actual capabilities. The products are situational awareness and a targeting list. Aircraft (particularly OS float planes) were outstanding at patrolling open seas but had a difficult time spotting any units in closed terrain. They could easily spot firing artillery and moving vehicles in any terrain. Special aircraft with photographic capability should be able to ly over designated hexes to reveal enemy on the following turn. All naval ships were limited to the horizon unless the had radar. Ground recon units had special training in stealth and target recognition as well as improved radios and optical devices giving them an accuracy and range advantage.
1- Suppression of Enemy Antiaircraft. SEAD are the "conditional" actions performed primarily by either long range heavy artillery or high maneuver, low altitude fighter/attack bombers to attack the AA protecting targets scheduled for bomber strikes.
2. Counter Air. Actions taken by both aircraft and ground AA artillery to disrupt destroy enemy air assets with the objective of gaining air superiority. Counter Air can be both Offensive involving bombers with or without fighter escorts attacking enemy air fields/bases or Defensive involving fighters performing interception (best represented by allowing fighters an extended defense range from their assigned airbase) or combat air patrols (CAP). AA artillery is designed for use in 3 air strike regimes: Light (20-25mm) auto-cannons designed specifically for high rate of tracer fire and rapid target tracking rates specifically dealing with suppressing high maneuver low altitude fighter-attack bombers. Limited altitude engagement ability.
Medium (37-40mm) auto cannons designed to track and engage low level tactical bombers.Not as good (1/2 suppression?) as light against the F/A bmrs but x2 against multi-engine low level tactical bmrs. Cant reach medium altitude/strategic bmrrs.
Heavy (>70mm) cannons designed to track and engage medium to high level strategic bombers.
3. Counter Battery. Actions taken by both aircraft and ground indirect artillery to disrupt, suppress enemy artillery.
4.Bombardment. Actions taken by both aircraft and ground indirect artillery to disrupt, suppress enemy.
The 5 Tactical roles. Those actions on the battlefield to directly engage the enemy with the purpose to destroy or capture.
5. Counter Anti-tank. Engaging AT guns with stand off artillery observed by the firing crew providing more lethal and suppressive fire that indirect.
6. Anti-Tank. Engaging Armored vehicles with direct fire anti-tank guns to destroy disrupt their units.
7. Assault Guns. Engaging Enemy infantry support weapons (MGs, mortars, IGs, field cannons, etc. with direct fire HE guns to destroy disrupt their capability to support their infantry.
8. Suppressive/Base of Fire. Engaging Enemy infantry with direct fire MG, direct grenades/mortars and ranging HE fire to destroy disrupt suppress the enemy infantry.
9. Close Assault. Dismounted infantry/combat engineers attack enemy position. Close assaults basically occur in 2 increments (1) the initial assault with the defender firing initiate (rifle grenades, AT rifles, RPGs, MG, semi-iauto rifle/carbine), then (2) simultaneous final assault (hand grenades, semi=auto pistols, sub-machines, flame thrower, LMG, explosives, mines). Assault unit must enter hex to destroy, retreat, or force surrender on the enemy.
LETHALITY RECAP: Best to worst=
1. Final assault (range 0)
2. Initial assault (range 0)
3. Direct fire (range 1)
4. Ranging crew observed fire (range 2)
5 Indirect observed fire (range 2 or more)
6 Indirect unobserved fire (range 2 or more)

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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by LudwigBeck85 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:26 am

Hello everyone, Hello developer from PC 2,

I have been following the topic for a very long time and have played PC 1 with great enthusiasm and fun. In my opinion, one should also think of the atmosphere, such as instructions by message during the campaign, which are covered with historical images of locales and generals. Examples are the great mods to PC 1! Those were in the PC1 standard version very little and only with text not well represented! Otherwise everything sounds very interesting! The cards are a matter of taste but ok! Only the cities are presented (alpha version) loveless! They could be even more detailed! I hope you can improve it a bit! A big fan of this series

Retributarr
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by Retributarr » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:57 pm

LudwigBeck85 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:26 am
Hello everyone, Hello developer from PC 2,

I have been following the topic for a very long time and have played PC 1 with great enthusiasm and fun. In my opinion, one should also think of the atmosphere, such as instructions by message during the campaign, which are covered with historical images of locales and generals. Examples are the great mods to PC 1! Those were in the PC1 standard version very little and only with text not well represented! Otherwise everything sounds very interesting! The cards are a matter of taste but ok! Only the cities are presented (alpha version) loveless! They could be even more detailed! I hope you can improve it a bit! A big fan of this series
Thank's for your inspirational comment LudwigBeck85 !:

Following along and continuing on your line of thought...I would like to add some salt & pepper to your initial comment!.

Instead of 'A-La-Blande'/(alpha version) loveless city images...I would instead like to see in 'Major-Cities' a representation/construct's of the Eiffel-Tower -Image in "Paris", the Brandenburg-Gate-Image in "Berlin", the ??? Cathedral like Buildings and Spires in "Moscau"...a Big-Ben-Tower Illustrated in the city of "London", the Colosseum in "Rome-Italy"...and other notable landmark, building emplacements/locations.

"the atmosphere, such as instructions by message during the campaign, which are covered with historical images of locales and generals."

Where possible/practical...have messages...such as 'Hitlers...stand and fight order with no retreat order'...and otherwise sent to the representative factions/armed forces... from Winston Churchill, Charles de Gaulle, Adolf Hitler, Franklin D. Roosevelt , & Benito Mussolini.

Images of these leaders could also be included to enhance the 'Atmosphere' of the game.

Put some 'Rocket-Fuel' into this game... or in other-words..."Put those Rocket Boots on...and Smoke".
Last edited by Retributarr on Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:00 pm

Retributarr wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:57 pm
I would instead like to see in 'Major-Cities' a representation/construct's of the Eiffel-Tower -Image in "Paris", the Brandenburg-Gate-Image in "Berlin", the ??? Cathedral like Buildings and Spires in "Moscau"...a Big-Ben-Tower Illustrated in the city of "London", the Colosseum in "Rome-Italy"...and other notable landmark, building emplacements/locations.
McGuba did some of this in Battlefield Europe... Kremlin in Moscow! :D

Retributarr
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Re: Panzer Corps 2 - Dev Diary #9

Post by Retributarr » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:58 pm

PeteMitchell_2 wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:00 pm
Retributarr wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:57 pm
I would instead like to see in 'Major-Cities' a representation/construct's of the Eiffel-Tower -Image in "Paris", the Brandenburg-Gate-Image in "Berlin", the ??? Cathedral like Buildings and Spires in "Moscau"...a Big-Ben-Tower Illustrated in the city of "London", the Colosseum in "Rome-Italy"...and other notable landmark, building emplacements/locations.
McGuba did some of this in Battlefield Europe... Kremlin in Moscow! :D
"Pete"...I would like very much to install and run "McGuba's Battlefield Europe"...but am unable too...because I have had a 'Vexing-Difficulty' in understanding and or installing that 'JPEG' thing or what-ever it is designated as.

If possible, could you send me some simple...easy to understand...step by step instructions as to how to install "McGuba's Battlefield Europe"...., I would appreciate it!.

Please let me know if you can assist me and also by what preferred method?. here in this Forum or by ...'E-Mail' or by what-ever other means. Maybe in a 'Separate-Topic' all by itself?.

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