When?

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PeteMitchell_2
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Re: When?

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:33 pm

I guess these are all valid points... just one thought to add to it: if you don't tell a story (actively) someone else will... and that is what is happening here right now with PzC2… and you run the risk that people are getting frustrated…

Rudankort
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Re: When?

Post by Rudankort » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:29 pm

PeteMitchell_2 wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:33 pm
I guess these are all valid points... just one thought to add to it: if you don't tell a story (actively) someone else will... and that is what is happening here right now with PzC2… and you run the risk that people are getting frustrated…
If I, or anyone else from Slitherine/Flashback, were "telling the story more actively", I seriously doubt that it would change anything. In fact, I announced on this very forum that:
We are confident that 2019 will be a “Panzer Corps 2 year” and that Panzer Corps will get a worthy successor which will deliver many hours of fun to all the fans of this genre.
Apparently this has not impressed anyone, so I'm not going to repeat it again and again in every topic. Information from the devs is often taken with a grain of salt, because people consider it marketing blah-blah which can be far from reality. And yes, this kind of skepticism is not unjustified, game industry in general gives enough ground for it. Ultimately, the game must speak for itself.

But if you insist, a few quick points, which you can believe or not.

- Panzer Corps is developed by Flashback Games. Slitherine is a publisher who works with many other developers besides ourselves. I'm not even aware of some other projects going. Naturally, as those other projects progress through their development cycle, they get announced, their beta programs start, and they release.

- I very much appreciate it that Slitherine guys do not interfere in our development process, and I have full creative control and freedom in this project. But for this reason, there are few things which they can do wrong or mismanage. If you don't like anything, blame me. :)

- We are fully committed to this game, and are heavily invested into it. A couple of weeks ago we passed an important milestone: every single 3D model for the game was finished. This has taken 3 years of work for a team which at its peak was something like 12 modellers. Terrain took similarly long time to do, and was a massive task. Visual effects, sound effects, music are all well under way. Watch the HoW stream tomorrow to see some examples of what we have achieved by now. There is simply no way you abandon a project at such stage.

- There is no "feature creep" happening per se, we have a clear focus and did not add any new tasks for ourselves in the last year or so (except maybe minor stuff). However, the scope of the project from the very beginning was quite ambitions. I mean hey, Panzer Corps exists and works. If you make a new game, it must actually bring something new to the table. There is a certain "critical mass" of improvements which justifies creation of a full-blown sequel. At least this is my view.

- Random content in particular was on my TODO list for the sequel long before the development even started. Many games have it, and when they do, it works great and benefits the game most of the time. There is no reason why random maps work so well in Civ, but won't work just as well in a Panzer Corps game. In some way, Panzer Corps potential was never fully exploited, simply because the history of WW2 does not include many situations which would be interesting to explore gameplay-wise. Random maps throw at you an endless stream of situations which historical content would never include. This is what makes this content interesting in its own right, and the reason why it greatly complements historical campaigns, not competes with them.

- Why is it taking so long? Well, there are many reasons. One reason is, Panzer Corps 2 is a huge game by any measure, developed by a small team. It needs to incorporate everything which Panzer Corps had on the start, everything which it accumulated over the additional several years of development, and build some cool stuff on top of that. Another reason is, we miscalculated the time. Our estimations were based on previous projects (Panzer Corps and Armageddon), plus the fact that the team has grown in size. We did not expect certain things. To give you just one simple example, as the project grew bigger, we found that compilation of the game takes like 10x more time than in Panzer Corps. Every time when you change something and rerun the game, you are facing this additional delay, and of course this happens many times every working day, so it quickly accumulates.

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: When?

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:51 pm

Thanks a lot for taking the time (on a Sunday) to put this out! :D

I just thought communicating more (i.e. providing more information about the game to the community on a more frequent basis) could help reduce/limit the continuous questioning of what is actually going on…

I look forward to the twitch session tomorrow!

terminator
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Re: When?

Post by terminator » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:08 am

Rudankort wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:29 pm
- We are fully committed to this game, and are heavily invested into it. A couple of weeks ago we passed an important milestone: every single 3D model for the game was finished. This has taken 3 years of work for a team which at its peak was something like 12 modellers. Terrain took similarly long time to do, and was a massive task. Visual effects, sound effects, music are all well under way. Watch the HoW stream tomorrow to see some examples of what we have achieved by now. There is simply no way you abandon a project at such stage.
Approximately how many different 3D models are there ?

Rudankort
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Re: When?

Post by Rudankort » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:26 pm

terminator wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:08 am
Approximately how many different 3D models are there ?
Right now we have exactly 530 3D models in our list. This number does not include any infantry units, and only includes unique models (repetitions like SE, captured, exported and land lease units are not counted).

terminator
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Re: When?

Post by terminator » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:43 pm

Rudankort wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:26 pm
terminator wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:08 am
Approximately how many different 3D models are there ?
Right now we have exactly 530 3D models in our list. This number does not include any infantry units, and only includes unique models (repetitions like SE, captured, exported and land lease units are not counted).
Thank you for giving a precise answer :D

ClaireRedfieldU
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Re: When?

Post by ClaireRedfieldU » Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:54 pm

PeteMitchell_2 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:51 pm
Thanks a lot for taking the time (on a Sunday) to put this out! :D

I just thought communicating more (i.e. providing more information about the game to the community on a more frequent basis) could help reduce/limit the continuous questioning of what is actually going on…

I look forward to the twitch session tomorrow!
How naive you are, Panzer corps 2 can be compared to a "dead child." Are you interested in the gaming industry? So you should know that delaying the release of the game the more such a long two years always says that there are financial problems and tvorcheskie within the team.

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: When?

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:58 pm

It could be that I am naive... who knows... :P :mrgreen:

terminator
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Re: When?

Post by terminator » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:19 pm

ClaireRedfieldU wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:54 pm
How naive you are, Panzer corps 2 can be compared to a "dead child." Are you interested in the gaming industry? So you should know that delaying the release of the game the more such a long two years always says that there are financial problems and tvorcheskie within the team.
I prefer to wait and have a game finished at the release than to have a game earlier but not finished...

pipfromslitherine
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Re: When?

Post by pipfromslitherine » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:54 pm

ClaireRedfieldU wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:54 pm
PeteMitchell_2 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:51 pm
Thanks a lot for taking the time (on a Sunday) to put this out! :D

I just thought communicating more (i.e. providing more information about the game to the community on a more frequent basis) could help reduce/limit the continuous questioning of what is actually going on…

I look forward to the twitch session tomorrow!
How naive you are, Panzer corps 2 can be compared to a "dead child." Are you interested in the gaming industry? So you should know that delaying the release of the game the more such a long two years always says that there are financial problems and tvorcheskie within the team.
You are wrong. The developer went to a lot of trouble to try and give you real information, and you just assume you know better? Making games is hard. It takes time. It can take longer than planned. If you are "interested in the gaming industry" you will know that this is the norm not the exception. Please stop spreading falsehoods and nonsense.

Cheers

Pip
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koopanique
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Re: When?

Post by koopanique » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:15 pm

Rudankort wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:29 pm
- Random content in particular was on my TODO list for the sequel long before the development even started. Many games have it, and when they do, it works great and benefits the game most of the time. There is no reason why random maps work so well in Civ, but won't work just as well in a Panzer Corps game. In some way, Panzer Corps potential was never fully exploited, simply because the history of WW2 does not include many situations which would be interesting to explore gameplay-wise. Random maps throw at you an endless stream of situations which historical content would never include. This is what makes this content interesting in its own right, and the reason why it greatly complements historical campaigns, not competes with them.
I am so happy to hear this. I like historical content as much as the next guy interested in the events of WW2 theatres, but I also love randomized maps and scenarios for just the reasons mentioned in Rudankort's post.

I'm 100% positive that the combination of the map editor + randomized maps will duplicate the longevity of the game. We've seen this in a lot of games, from Civ to Advance Wars to Advance Tactics, even some mods do that for Doom 1&2! It makes each game refreshing and surprising.

mbpopolano24
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Re: When?

Post by mbpopolano24 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:11 am

verstaubtgesicht wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:49 am
I am beginning to feel like Didi and Gogo...
Who are Didi and Gogo?

mbpopolano24
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Re: When?

Post by mbpopolano24 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:13 am

Whenever is ready, this is day one purchase for me....

Retributarr
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Re: When?

Post by Retributarr » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:28 am

mbpopolano24 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:11 am
verstaubtgesicht wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:49 am
I am beginning to feel like Didi and Gogo...
Who are Didi and Gogo?
"Who are Didi and Gogo?"
Maybe?...related to 'Gigatwa' & 'Tibo'...Who knows?...'Navar see Dat before'???.

"Patience and Suffering" (A measure of fortitude and determination) is required in order to exhibit 'self-control' to await the reward of a 'perfected game' that will keep your attention for year's to come!.

PeteMitchell_2
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Re: When?

Post by PeteMitchell_2 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:13 pm

They are two characters in a play called "Waiting for Godot"... there are different versions around but this one could be the most fun:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_Godot

funat
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Re: When?

Post by funat » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:12 am

In this case even the Godot reference was too optimistic, because they were already waiting for him (it) to come (implicating that time of his arrival was communicated).

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