Forgotten Army beta test

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bru888
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Forgotten Army beta test

Post by bru888 » Sat May 11, 2019 7:17 pm

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Here's the situation: "Following increasing tensions with the western powers, Japan has launched a widespread surprise offensive against its adversaries. British forces, already drained by two years of war with Germany, must now resist the battle-hardened Japanese across Southeast Asia."

So, how will it end?

Will it be: "After a long and grueling campaign, the tide has finally turned. The British and Commonwealth forces have managed to hold their ground along the border to India"?

Or will it be: "The British and Commonwealth forces have suffered major defeats at the hands of Imperial Japan, causing severe unrest among its Southeast Asian colonies"?

It's up to YOU, Commander!

Erik has put a ton of work into this campaign. I looked at it and was quite impressed with its potential. Now he needs beta testers and feedback. Let's go!

Link in first post here:
viewtopic.php?f=374&t=80862
- Bru

Erik2
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by Erik2 » Sun May 12, 2019 8:23 am

My personal PR-assistant, nice :D

Terminator reported an odd and somewhat disturbing pop-up message when you start the campaign and want to select the starting scenario:
viewtopic.php?f=374&t=80862&p=782932#p782932

Looks like a campaign bug (?).
Click on the Kota Bharu scenario location and launch it normally.

bru888
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by bru888 » Sun May 12, 2019 2:39 pm

This is not your doing, Erik. It's yet another bug/quirk in the game.

The campaign tree is functioning normally. It's the popup message when hovering over the scenario location ring that is the problem.

Here's the beginning sequence (thanks for the shout-out but it's not necessary :wink: :) ):

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Wherever you have hovered your mouse in the immediate past will appear in the popup message for the alternate scenario ring as you hover over it. Here, I hovered over Gin Drinkers Line before moving my mouse to Kota Bharu and the popup message is the same:

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But when I click on that ring, Kota Bharu does appear:

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If you have previously gone nowhere with the mouse, not even Gin Drinkers Line, then you get this bizarre message that terminator pointed out:

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But any other previous stop that produces a popup message will be reproduced when hovering over the alternate scenario ring, whether it's the startup campaign screen or a menu button:

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Now, what to do about it? The developer has not noticed this behavior, I will wager, because I don't know of any DLC that has this campaign path option presented to the player at the beginning of the campaign. I will leave it up to you to report it, if you wish.
- Bru

bru888
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by bru888 » Sun May 12, 2019 3:40 pm

As a matter of fact, I just surveyed all 11 official DLC campaigns released so far and not one of them has a setup like this anywhere in their campaign trees:

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The developer, or his guest designers, have relied upon scenario outcomes for branching, not choices like the one you provide here. No wonder they never noticed this flaw. Nor was the feature ever properly developed: Why would the alternate scenario ring be blank? Why not show it properly so that it is not overlooked? That would be when they would have noticed.

Well, it seems you have been a pioneer in this approach. Being a forerunner brings responsibility, sir, so it is up to you to approach the Oracle about this! :roll: :)
- Bru

McLeoudX
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Re: Forgotten Army 1941-42 v0.99

Post by McLeoudX » Wed May 15, 2019 12:36 am

Erik2 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 4:08 pm
Forgotten Army 1941-42 v0.99

Campaign:
Added Choose Path event and changed the opening branches:
1) Micro campaign: Gin Drinkers line -> Hong Kong -> Task Force Z -> End
1.1 Gin Drinkers line -> Is still to hard, really unfair, but perhaps this is the plan? Got a minor victory.
2.1 Defending Hongkong: Destroyed all (!) enemy land forces, including the 3 artillery units on Sumatra (the opposite island).
Fullfilled all (!) objectives . And got a "minor victory" ! It's a joke, isn't it?
3. Task Force Z: Works, seems to be OK

4. Nice Campaign, a little short :)
Last edited by McLeoudX on Thu May 16, 2019 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There can only be one :)

Bobster66
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by Bobster66 » Wed May 15, 2019 1:31 am

Ok, gave this another go. In Gin Drinkers, tried several times but couldn't repeat my one time successful defense of Shing Mun. I have only used one ground unit to try to slow the Japanese down and am wary to use another as I'm afraid of how weak that would leave me elsewhere. All units trying to defend Shing Mun are likely to get annihilated by the Japanese assault or bombed to oblivion while retreating as there is no cover. Guess I should just try it and see how it goes. Technically, there didn't appear to be any issues, so it's looking pretty good!

In Hong Kong, all the Japanese supply ships were destroyed before the halfway point of the scenario which of course meant that all their ground forces were eliminated. This was done with just my two destroyers so perhaps there should be some naval opposition for them.

In Kota Bharu there are unused air command points for Australia, and naval and air command points also available for GB. Since there are no funds provided to purchase any units, I assume that this is a hold over from the previous format where we had a core force to work with? Should the CP be removed, or additional forces be provided?

Erik2
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by Erik2 » Wed May 15, 2019 7:56 am

I'm adding feedback to my forgotten to-do-list :D

Real-life work projects mean I'll probably not be able to publish any update until medium/late June.

Re Hong Kong:
Noticed something similar during a recent test play, there will be a number of changes to this scenario.

Erik2
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by Erik2 » Wed May 15, 2019 6:41 pm

Campaign:
Changed start branch again. The previous version created issues with command points in Kota Bharu.

Hong Kong:
Jap starts first
Increased Jap air and land unit exp
Replaced Jap supply ships with on-shore supply
Some random Jap deployment
Added sec objs

Update here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4g1cqlw4wncb1 ... 1.zip?dl=0

Bobster66
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by Bobster66 » Thu May 16, 2019 11:14 pm

With yesterday's update I see that the map for Gin Drinkers is smaller. That makes sense since the Japanese units on the eastern side of the map never accomplished anything important. However, there are now 2 fox holes in the reserve unit list that can not be placed, these should just be deleted. More importantly though, there is no longer enough supply available on the map to place all of your ground units.

Erik2
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by Erik2 » Fri May 17, 2019 7:50 am

Gin Drinkers Line:
Removed MG nests
Added Allied supply
Minor Jap supply changes

Force Z:
Changes to pri and sec objs
Jap sub exp = 10
Reduced no of Brit carrier air units
Reduced Brit air CPs
Consolidated Jap fighter and bomber AI teams



Update here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/q6ry7drbwwk16 ... 2.zip?dl=0

messismentor
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by messismentor » Mon May 20, 2019 12:22 am

In Scenario 4, Invasion of Malaya, I have 12 CP for Australian air units, but I only have one Australian air unit, and not enough money to buy any more. I don't recall losing Australian air units earlier.

Erik2
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by Erik2 » Mon May 20, 2019 8:25 am

messismentor wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 12:22 am
In Scenario 4, Invasion of Malaya, I have 12 CP for Australian air units, but I only have one Australian air unit, and not enough money to buy any more. I don't recall losing Australian air units earlier.
You need to restart using the latest campaign version, I changed the scenario branches exactly because of command point issues :wink:
The branch is now Gin Drinker -> Hong Kong -> Taks Force Z -> Kota Bharu etc
Yes, I know the time-line is not historically correct.
Use the cheat #igotnukes if you don't want to replay previous scenarios.

Task Force Z: 3 Aussie air units
Kota Bharu: 1 Aussie air unit

Bobster66
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by Bobster66 » Tue May 21, 2019 5:19 am

Went back to Gin Drinkers again, and again, and... This is now officially the one scenario I have replayed the most of any game ever. :-)

I swear I previously succeeded holding Shing Mun just to the start of turn 7 but now it seams that it must be till the end of turn 7. Even using 3 units to defend it took 5 attempts before I was successful and it led to the destruction of all three including a core unit. I guess there's no point in trying to rewrite history for this objective.

All of the Primary Objectives that tell you to hold them for 20 turns actually require you to hold them for 21 turns.

Horst
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by Horst » Tue May 21, 2019 4:15 pm

Bobster, aren't you getting drunk by playing that scenario too often? ;)

Bobster66
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by Bobster66 » Tue May 21, 2019 8:14 pm

Horst wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 4:15 pm
Bobster, aren't you getting drunk by playing that scenario too often? ;)
:lol:

Despite the scenario name, I'm usually drinking a Guinness while playing.

bru888
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by bru888 » Wed May 22, 2019 1:52 am

I figure I will take a swig of Gin Drinkers as well. It's a pleasure to be playing instead of sweeping for a change! :)

And I found something; there is a discrepancy between objective and description for the evacuation module. The triggers have it correct; when one core unit is killed, or on Turn 20, enable the "Evacuate units to Hong Kong" primary objective:

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with the event popup saying "Evacuate at least 2 core land units to Hong Kong" which coincides with the objective trigger:

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However, the objective itself says this, which confused me and caused me to look into the works:

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No doubt it's the objective description that needs to be edited. [Okay, so I'll play and sweep a little bit. :wink:]
- Bru

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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by bru888 » Wed May 22, 2019 4:03 pm

Gin Drinkers Line, v. 0.922.

I always play on medium difficulty, from preference and to judge the balance of scenarios. I played on medium difficulty here.

I was quite proud of (barely) achieving the secondary objective of holding Shing Mun Redoubt for 7 turns (which is correct, Bobster; when it says hold it for 7 turns, it means 7 full turns, not 6 and be rewarded at the beginning of Turn 7):

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But doing so required a sacrifice of a good portion of my meager forces. I concentrated my core down here and made a good stand:

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However, it was all for naught:

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All of which leads to a gameplay opinion and a scenario sweep observation.

Opinion: At medium difficulty, I don't think a Major Victory is possible. One cannot defend Shing Mun for 7 turns and also fend off the Japanese from conquering at least one of the primary objectives for 20 turns. Even if Shing Mun is abandoned, I doubt the Allies have enough to do the job for the primary objectives. A couple of fighters at Kai Tak (the Wildebeest is useless)? Another colonial infantry or two? (Caveat: This is only my opinion; perhaps there is a better way of playing this and I would be interested if anybody did beat this scenario on middle difficulty.)

Observation: Notice in the last screen capture that the scenario is over. Only my wounded Wildebeest is left; all core units are destroyed. Yet, the scenario is not over. To end it, I must advance 14 more meaningless turns. My point is, there should be a mechanism to end the scenario with a Minor Defeat at this point. Something like this:

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- Bru

bru888
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by bru888 » Wed May 22, 2019 6:15 pm

I played it again, just to see if I could at least eke out a Draw. Here's a more practical "Oriental Maginot Line" that a sane commander, upon viewing the situation (and with some forewarning), would draw:

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The object, of course, was to protect Kowloon Port for as long as possible while allowing core units the best chance of evacuation. I did quite well until the pressure became too great. Here, two core units are at sea and the third is about to embark:

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Which was a good thing because one did not make it thanks to the Japanese air force from which I have no defense - the destroyer is useless. Then, to my distress, I realize the exit hex is on land, necessitating disembarking left or right because the exit hex itself does not allow it (somewhat cumbersome - maybe make the port the exit hex, given the difficulty?):

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But, thanks to generous resources for repair, I did make it out with two core units:

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Now, that's the best I could do with foreknowledge and with giving up on all the other objectives from the beginning, on middle difficulty. That's why I am saying this is a bit unbalanced in terms of gameplay.

Disregard this extraneous screen shot which I cannot delete:
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- Bru

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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by GabeKnight » Wed May 22, 2019 7:55 pm

Forgotten Army 1941-42_0.992, level 3 difficulty

It's a bit frustrating to have to lose that many core units, but since it's the first mission, they could easily be bought back. Yeah, it not super easy and I had to reload one turn, because there was some enemy unit advancing towards my airfield via the mountain terrain that I did not see in time. :roll:

The balance is okay for experienced players, I guess, but seriously too hard for newcomers. I managed to get a Major win on my first try with no foreknowledge, so it can't be too hard IMO.
Bobster66 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 5:19 am
All of the Primary Objectives that tell you to hold them for 20 turns actually require you to hold them for 21 turns.
Still true.
bru888 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 6:15 pm
the destroyer is useless.
You can use it to embark troops from non-port-hexes. Same with the gunboats, I guess.

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bru888
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Re: Forgotten Army beta test

Post by bru888 » Wed May 22, 2019 8:01 pm

In light of this, I withdraw my comments about gameplay balance. Obviously it can be done.
- Bru

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