DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

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Kerensky
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by Kerensky »

The results are in:

Marked in Black are the items that are absolutely a part of the 1940 campaign.
Marked in Red are items that are not part of the 1940 DLC. Sorry, Germany didn't make it to China after all. :lol:

Image

Our forum players placed 116 bets! Impressive!
Out of those 116 bets, 75 bets landed on predictions that turned out to be true.
The top 6 most bet on listings ALL turned out to be true.
The 7th most bet on listing was the first listing that turned out to not be an accurate prediction... 5C with 6 votes for Finland showing up in 1940. Finland getting the short end of the stick again... GUNDOBALDO08 is going to think I have some kind of anti-Finnish bias. :oops:
The highest scoring listings both tied at 12. We'll have to figure out a tie breaker, because there is a grand prize that was part of the game. :shock:

Thanks for participating, we hope you are really looking forward to going hands on with the content very soon (even sooner for our BETA testers)!
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by Kerensky »

Post game analysis:

We have a tie for the leaders 5A and 5E. I'll figure out a tie breaker soon, standby on that.


My personal thoughts on the various listings:

1A. This was part of the plan because no games ever go and visit the Channel Islands. But not only are we going to the Channel Islands, it is a never before seen scenario type: a training mission. I think this is far more interesting, and useful in a Grand Campaign environment, than a fictional invasion. We already have that coming in...

2A. Sea Lion is part of the DLC, and attacking radar stations made it in as a bonus degree of victory objective. A full four scenarios are dedicated to Sea Lion, which is why the DLC scenario count inflated to almost 20. It's the biggest content DLC so far. Even without the tiny training scenarios, it's 17 full sized battles, and some of those battles are bigger than the biggest battles we've seen so far. Ebro sized affairs for sure.

3A. One of the defining moments of the invasion of the Low Countries. Even though original Grand Campaign had a dedicated Eben Emael scenario, new supply and encirclement mechanics of Panzer Corps 2 make revisiting this scenario a very different experience. So you can look forward to that for sure!

4A. Not being able to capture aircraft through the surrender system hasn't changed. But stocks of captured aircraft introduced in the hidden depot and Commendation Point system is a no brainer. Players ask for captured aircraft, and we can deliver them.

5A. The shocking surprise prediction, because I don't recall seeing the Battle of Hannut in any game. Even the original Grand Campaign missed this one, instead focusing on the Albert Canal. That's a shame, because apparently it was a huge tank battle. How could we miss a huge tank battle in a game with the word 'Panzer' in the title. It was a travesty that needed to be rectified, so Hannut was absolutely in the plan. By the way, internal testing shows this is a crazy hard battle, so good luck. Instead of the usual scenario full of fodder you roll over... this battle is basically a French CORE force vs your CORE force. A large collection of elite, OS, hero units acting in unison and not spread out piecemeal all over the map. Have fun!

1B. This, plus Hannut, was inspiration to start the game. No one has seen Hannut in a game, and Rommel everyone knows from Afrika Korps, not so much from France. For both of these to be predictions that were part of the plan long before the prediction game started... Really felt like the content was moving in a good direction and in sync with the players. More details on Rommel coming in next announcement.

2B. No more puzzles where you have to tip toe around enemies. But the idea train hasnt stopped, the new idea is (optional) Training Scenarios!

3B. Our first prediction that didnt make it. A shame, because we have the aircraft model that was involved in this incident in game. It's a BF 108 Taifun, the transport aircraft you used back in the Spanish Civil War. Just couldnt fit an interesting scenario involving a single aircraft and nothing else into the game. It woulda been a very bizarre puzzle scenario if anything.

4B. Calais was in the original Grand Campaign, and that was a huge negative against it returning to the new Axis Operations.

5B. Just too early for Eastern Front, too much needed to cover in 1940, and East Front is going to dominate the future content, if the original Grand Campaign is any indicator.

1C. This is sort of in game, but not implicitly so, so I marked it as a red prediction. This battle was running at the same time as Hannut, and the Sedan scenario actually contains French counterattacks in it. Maybe I should mark it black? Not sure thats fair so I left it red.

2C This was on the table, and seriously investigated. It almost became a Forbach style 'aux only' bonus mission where you control Italians and scramble to grab French equipment depots for your main force to use captured equipment with. But alas, it wasnt looking very interesting, and being Forbach style means its something we'd already done before.

3C This is a panzer light battle, which is interesting. Definitely dont see a lot of that content, but its a sideshow compared to the Valkenburg Raid mission, thats a real 'no panzers' battle there.

4C How can you have 1940 without Sedan? This was a given, but we've mixed it up somewhat. This is the largest map so far in the entire Axis Operations...

5C I guess I hate Finland, because they didnt get their own Winter War content in 1939, and continue to not get it in 1940. Well there's still the Lapland War coming up in 1944, maybe I'll catch them there! :!:

1D Going to Sea Lion means plundering British airfields means acquiring Spitfires.

2D Just too far removed from all other content, going to Asia is a bit too far. It doesnt fit in with anything before or after.

3D Another staple of the original Grand Campaign, but the new Arras is hugely different from the old Arras. Old Arras is slightly embarrassing in its lack of historical accuracy, now that I look back at it. Old Arras was a West East battle, historical Arras was a North South battle... whoops? Perfect opportunity for a much more historically accurate Arras though. And there's that little extra point about Rommel showing up too now, certainly didn't have that last time around.

4D Had this one in the original GC as the final battle of 1939.

5D A huge surprise that this was a prediction people had, and the amount of votes it got. Guys, the game has 'Panzer' in the title. Not 'Luftwaffe'. :shock: Even more surprising is that this battle actually made it into the content. Mechanically it works, so it made it into the content. Turns out if you set no deploy hexes and have no supply hexes, you can still operate aircraft from airfields. :shock:
Thank rudankort for this scenario though. Before the forum game started, there were discussions about the 1940 content plan. He was opposed to 4 scenarios worth of Italy in the Balkans, and part of the negotiation on the content was to put a historical air only battle into the game instead. Then later when the forum game started and someone predicted 'aircraft only battle'... well that was just swell. :mrgreen:

1E Wasnt on our radar for Dutch content, too busy looking at a revamped airborne operation and the Grebbeburg. Missed this one.

2E and 3E these two, plus Channel islands, could have all been part of the Sea Lion scenarios, but they're just a bit too far flung, too obsure and fictional to had made it into the drafts

4E I'll let a store page quote answer this one:

WESTERN EUROPE AFLAME

From Norway, to the Low Countries, to France, Britain, and the Balkans, players can again expect to encounter a huge variety of adversaries in this campaign. Plenty of different battlescapes await, as does the ongoing opportunities to capture and field enemy equipment as your own.
And watch out for the return of the Nemesis system, as a certain French tank commander named Charles de Gaulle may prove to be quite the thorn in your side!


5E After the feedback from Finland, and because basically no WW2 games visit Albania/Greece in 1940 this had to make it into the content. It was originally going to be 4 scenarios, which is huge, but that was trimmed down. I assure everyone there are Italian units on these maps, not just your Germans alone as they were in the fictional 1939 Finnish scenarios. :P
It was 4 scenarios not just because these battles are so rarely covered, because they explain so much about what happens next year in 1941 with Marita. Everyone blames the failure of Barbarossa on its late start because of the Balkan sideshow... but no one really talks about why the Balkan sideshow was even a thing. This is a great opportunity to explain and set up for the future instead of just being dumped directly into Marita with no context or explanation.
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by Waffenamt »

>>It's a BF 108 Taifun, the transport aircraft you used back in the Spanish Civil War.>>

I guess we'll have to wait a few more DLCs down the road when when a scenario appears based on the Von Ryan's Express movie, since they used some French-built ones to represent Bf109s. I can't wait to see the Frank Sinatra-based hero knocking them out of the skies with a grease gun from atop a train roaring through the Swiss Alps (or something like that - I watched it a very long time ago and only once ) :lol: .

Regards
kondi754
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by kondi754 »

I'm very happy that I was able to bet so accurately :)
However, I'm curious if the game will feature any of the major evacuations of Allied troops from France to UK, not Dunkirk but Cherbourg or one of the ports on the Atlantic Ocean.
I'm thinking, of course, of an attempt to prevent such an evacuation by the Wehrmacht
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by Schneides42 »

Very impressed with all of this. Not only did you encourage the speculation but it seems you were influenced by all of it as well.

Thanks for the detailed responses to each suggestion. Sad that my Italians in the Alps didn't work out and what you had in mind sounded interesting but the Channel Islands training missions sound like a better alternative set of scenarios.

Also very happy that the release is on my birthday!
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by Vorskl »

Well... I am impressed by Kerensky's openness, productivity and involvement of players.
I am NOT impressed by fellow players voting for low impact scenarios such as Channel islands OR fantasy such as 'New Nemesis' while disregarding massive engagements such as Winter War 1940. :oops:
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by Buffalohump »

Kerensky wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:08 pm Post game analysis:

We have a tie for the leaders 5A and 5E. I'll figure out a tie breaker soon, standby on that.


My personal thoughts on the various listings:

1A. This was part of the plan because no games ever go and visit the Channel Islands. But not only are we going to the Channel Islands, it is a never before seen scenario type: a training mission. I think this is far more interesting, and useful in a Grand Campaign environment, than a fictional invasion. We already have that coming in...

2A. Sea Lion is part of the DLC, and attacking radar stations made it in as a bonus degree of victory objective. A full four scenarios are dedicated to Sea Lion, which is why the DLC scenario count inflated to almost 20. It's the biggest content DLC so far. Even without the tiny training scenarios, it's 17 full sized battles, and some of those battles are bigger than the biggest battles we've seen so far. Ebro sized affairs for sure.

3A. One of the defining moments of the invasion of the Low Countries. Even though original Grand Campaign had a dedicated Eben Emael scenario, new supply and encirclement mechanics of Panzer Corps 2 make revisiting this scenario a very different experience. So you can look forward to that for sure!

4A. Not being able to capture aircraft through the surrender system hasn't changed. But stocks of captured aircraft introduced in the hidden depot and Commendation Point system is a no brainer. Players ask for captured aircraft, and we can deliver them.

5A. The shocking surprise prediction, because I don't recall seeing the Battle of Hannut in any game. Even the original Grand Campaign missed this one, instead focusing on the Albert Canal. That's a shame, because apparently it was a huge tank battle. How could we miss a huge tank battle in a game with the word 'Panzer' in the title. It was a travesty that needed to be rectified, so Hannut was absolutely in the plan. By the way, internal testing shows this is a crazy hard battle, so good luck. Instead of the usual scenario full of fodder you roll over... this battle is basically a French CORE force vs your CORE force. A large collection of elite, OS, hero units acting in unison and not spread out piecemeal all over the map. Have fun!

1B. This, plus Hannut, was inspiration to start the game. No one has seen Hannut in a game, and Rommel everyone knows from Afrika Korps, not so much from France. For both of these to be predictions that were part of the plan long before the prediction game started... Really felt like the content was moving in a good direction and in sync with the players. More details on Rommel coming in next announcement.

2B. No more puzzles where you have to tip toe around enemies. But the idea train hasnt stopped, the new idea is (optional) Training Scenarios!

3B. Our first prediction that didnt make it. A shame, because we have the aircraft model that was involved in this incident in game. It's a BF 108 Taifun, the transport aircraft you used back in the Spanish Civil War. Just couldnt fit an interesting scenario involving a single aircraft and nothing else into the game. It woulda been a very bizarre puzzle scenario if anything.

4B. Calais was in the original Grand Campaign, and that was a huge negative against it returning to the new Axis Operations.

5B. Just too early for Eastern Front, too much needed to cover in 1940, and East Front is going to dominate the future content, if the original Grand Campaign is any indicator.

1C. This is sort of in game, but not implicitly so, so I marked it as a red prediction. This battle was running at the same time as Hannut, and the Sedan scenario actually contains French counterattacks in it. Maybe I should mark it black? Not sure thats fair so I left it red.

2C This was on the table, and seriously investigated. It almost became a Forbach style 'aux only' bonus mission where you control Italians and scramble to grab French equipment depots for your main force to use captured equipment with. But alas, it wasnt looking very interesting, and being Forbach style means its something we'd already done before.

3C This is a panzer light battle, which is interesting. Definitely dont see a lot of that content, but its a sideshow compared to the Valkenburg Raid mission, thats a real 'no panzers' battle there.

4C How can you have 1940 without Sedan? This was a given, but we've mixed it up somewhat. This is the largest map so far in the entire Axis Operations...

5C I guess I hate Finland, because they didnt get their own Winter War content in 1939, and continue to not get it in 1940. Well there's still the Lapland War coming up in 1944, maybe I'll catch them there! :!:

1D Going to Sea Lion means plundering British airfields means acquiring Spitfires.

2D Just too far removed from all other content, going to Asia is a bit too far. It doesnt fit in with anything before or after.

3D Another staple of the original Grand Campaign, but the new Arras is hugely different from the old Arras. Old Arras is slightly embarrassing in its lack of historical accuracy, now that I look back at it. Old Arras was a West East battle, historical Arras was a North South battle... whoops? Perfect opportunity for a much more historically accurate Arras though. And there's that little extra point about Rommel showing up too now, certainly didn't have that last time around.

4D Had this one in the original GC as the final battle of 1939.

5D A huge surprise that this was a prediction people had, and the amount of votes it got. Guys, the game has 'Panzer' in the title. Not 'Luftwaffe'. :shock: Even more surprising is that this battle actually made it into the content. Mechanically it works, so it made it into the content. Turns out if you set no deploy hexes and have no supply hexes, you can still operate aircraft from airfields. :shock:
Thank rudankort for this scenario though. Before the forum game started, there were discussions about the 1940 content plan. He was opposed to 4 scenarios worth of Italy in the Balkans, and part of the negotiation on the content was to put a historical air only battle into the game instead. Then later when the forum game started and someone predicted 'aircraft only battle'... well that was just swell. :mrgreen:

1E Wasnt on our radar for Dutch content, too busy looking at a revamped airborne operation and the Grebbeburg. Missed this one.

2E and 3E these two, plus Channel islands, could have all been part of the Sea Lion scenarios, but they're just a bit too far flung, too obsure and fictional to had made it into the drafts

4E I'll let a store page quote answer this one:

WESTERN EUROPE AFLAME

From Norway, to the Low Countries, to France, Britain, and the Balkans, players can again expect to encounter a huge variety of adversaries in this campaign. Plenty of different battlescapes await, as does the ongoing opportunities to capture and field enemy equipment as your own.
And watch out for the return of the Nemesis system, as a certain French tank commander named Charles de Gaulle may prove to be quite the thorn in your side!


5E After the feedback from Finland, and because basically no WW2 games visit Albania/Greece in 1940 this had to make it into the content. It was originally going to be 4 scenarios, which is huge, but that was trimmed down. I assure everyone there are Italian units on these maps, not just your Germans alone as they were in the fictional 1939 Finnish scenarios. :P
It was 4 scenarios not just because these battles are so rarely covered, because they explain so much about what happens next year in 1941 with Marita. Everyone blames the failure of Barbarossa on its late start because of the Balkan sideshow... but no one really talks about why the Balkan sideshow was even a thing. This is a great opportunity to explain and set up for the future instead of just being dumped directly into Marita with no context or explanation.
Awesome looking content, when can we look forward to release with a rough estimate?

Regards,
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by Buffalohump »

Post script:

I feel like Charlie in "Willy Wonka and The Chocolate Factory", the original Gene Wilder one and not that bizarre remake. I am the little boy who woke up and got everything he wanted.

Regards,
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by Kerensky »

Vorskl wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:00 am Well... I am impressed by Kerensky's openness, productivity and involvement of players.
I am NOT impressed by fellow players voting for low impact scenarios such as Channel islands OR fantasy such as 'New Nemesis' while disregarding massive engagements such as Winter War 1940. :oops:
I assure you, Charles de Gaulle the tank commander during 1940 is as real as Charles de Gaulle the future president of the French Republic.
He was one of the few advocates within the French army to stop using their tanks piecemeal as infantry support vehicles, and to mass them together into a concentrated armored force. His 4th division was very successful, but much like late war Germany's woes, it was too little too late against an overwhelming tide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_d ... _commander

"On 28–29 May, de Gaulle attacked the German bridgehead south of the Somme at Abbeville"

Abbeville is one of the scenarios listed on the store page. :!:
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by adiekmann »

It all looks very promising! From your description, this appears to have all the makings of the best DLC yet! I can't wait!
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by Retributarr »

Kerensky wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:08 pm Post game analysis:

My personal thoughts on the various listings:

1B. This, plus Hannut, was inspiration to start the game. No one has seen Hannut in a game, and Rommel everyone knows from Afrika Korps, not so much from France. For both of these to be predictions that were part of the plan long before the prediction game started... Really felt like the content was moving in a good direction and in sync with the players. More details on Rommel coming in next announcement.
https://bukowo.com/2020/05/27/the-battl ... of-the-88/
The Battle of Arras and the Dawn of the 88

Image
Image
Battle of Arras: French in blue, British in dark blue, German Army in red, SS in black

On 20 May 1940, the Germans had broken through the Allied lines and were racing to the channel. In order to slow their advance, the British Expeditionary Force launched a counterattack into the German flank, more specifically the flank of the 7th Panzer Division, led by Generalmajor Erwin Rommel.

Rommel’s panzers were having a great time tearing apart French headquarters, supply units, and routing withdrawing French units, and was hell bent on reaching the coast. He was taken completely by surprise with the BEF’s attack. Moreover, the 200 Czech made Pz38, and German made PzII and PzIV tanks that made up his division were no match for the 70 British Matilda heavy tanks. The guns of the German tanks simply couldn’t penetrate the Matilda’s armor and Rommel suffered heavy losses.

In desperation, Rommel ordered his 88mm antiaircraft guns to fire on the British tanks. The 88mm was designed to reach bombers at high altitudes and its high velocity round proved to be devastating against the British armor.

The famous (or infamous) “88” proved to be Germany’s most effective general purpose artillery piece throughout the war, whether in an anti-tank, anti-personnel, or anti-aircraft role. It was the bane of the Allies’ existence and redefined German armored tactics for the rest of the war.
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by adiekmann »

Buffalohump wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:35 am

Awesome looking content, when can we look forward to release with a rough estimate?

Regards,
On Steam it gives the release date of December 10th.
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by terminator »

I guess the Beta will start soon ?
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by kondi754 »

It is a very interesting selection of places, a lot new and at the same time it's not detached from reality. Besides, the combat route of the German armored units was very diverse in 1939-41.
I thought of Cherbourg in the context of Rommel, as it was his division (7th Panzer Div) that tried to prevent the British from successfully evacuating again, this time in Normandy
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by Rhaeg »

Kerensky wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:08 pm 5E After the feedback from Finland, and because basically no WW2 games visit Albania/Greece in 1940 this had to make it into the content. It was originally going to be 4 scenarios, which is huge, but that was trimmed down. I assure everyone there are Italian units on these maps, not just your Germans alone as they were in the fictional 1939 Finnish scenarios. :P
Pssst, how about going all Italian and no Germans? :P
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by Scrapulous »

Vorskl wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:00 am Well... I am impressed by Kerensky's openness, productivity and involvement of players.
I am NOT impressed by fellow players voting for low impact scenarios such as Channel islands OR fantasy such as 'New Nemesis' while disregarding massive engagements such as Winter War 1940. :oops:
We were voting for content? I thought it was a prediction game, based on the title of the thread.
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by adiekmann »

Most of the Scenarios are pretty straightforward or easy to figure out. There are 2 however that have me completely baffled.

The most obvious one is the 2nd one: "Undisclosed Location: CZ." The only ideas that I could come up with are "Czechoslovakia" or "costal zone." Could this be a 2nd Norway scenario where you invade Norway by sea somewhere after you have seized the primary airport near Oslo? Or is it the other training mission that Kerensky mentioned?

And the other is #12: Neufchateau.

The closest guess that I can come up with has something to do with a district/area in Northeastern France. Does this wrap up the French campaign? A "capture this town and seal the deal on the defenders of the Maginot Line" instead of a destroy the Maginot Line like was featured in the GC?

I don't expect anyone from Slitherine (Kerensky Wan Kenobi: You are my only hope!) to shed any light on this, but anyone else has any idea what these scenarios could be?
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by kondi754 »

adiekmann wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:52 pm Most of the Scenarios are pretty straightforward or easy to figure out. There are 2 however that have me completely baffled.

The most obvious one is the 2nd one: "Undisclosed Location: CZ." The only ideas that I could come up with are "Czechoslovakia" or "costal zone." Could this be a 2nd Norway scenario where you invade Norway by sea somewhere after you have seized the primary airport near Oslo? Or is it the other training mission that Kerensky mentioned?

And the other is #12: Neufchateau.

The closest guess that I can come up with has something to do with a district/area in Northeastern France. Does this wrap up the French campaign? A "capture this town and seal the deal on the defenders of the Maginot Line" instead of a destroy the Maginot Line like was featured in the GC?

I don't expect anyone from Slitherine (Kerensky Wan Kenobi: You are my only hope!) to shed any light on this, but anyone else has any idea what these scenarios could be?
Do you have a list of scenarios?
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by adiekmann »

kondi754 wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:03 am
adiekmann wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:52 pm Most of the Scenarios are pretty straightforward or easy to figure out. There are 2 however that have me completely baffled.

The most obvious one is the 2nd one: "Undisclosed Location: CZ." The only ideas that I could come up with are "Czechoslovakia" or "costal zone." Could this be a 2nd Norway scenario where you invade Norway by sea somewhere after you have seized the primary airport near Oslo? Or is it the other training mission that Kerensky mentioned?

And the other is #12: Neufchateau.

The closest guess that I can come up with has something to do with a district/area in Northeastern France. Does this wrap up the French campaign? A "capture this town and seal the deal on the defenders of the Maginot Line" instead of a destroy the Maginot Line like was featured in the GC?

I don't expect anyone from Slitherine (Kerensky Wan Kenobi: You are my only hope!) to shed any light on this, but anyone else has any idea what these scenarios could be?
Do you have a list of scenarios?
Yes, they are on the Slitherine store page under its posting. Click on the "features' tab. I did not see them on Steam's site. In the past, they were always listed in the order that the come up, and here it looks to be the same.

19 scenarios list

- Fornebu
- Undisclosed Location: CZ
- Valkenburg Raid
- Grebbeberg
- Eben-Emael
- Hannut
- Sedan
- Battle of Arras
- Siege of Lille
- Dunkirk
- Battle of Abbeville
- Neufchateau
- Channel Island Training
- Dover
- Brighton
- Epsom
- Portsmouth
- Battle of Pindus
- Valona
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Re: DLC 1940 Prediction Forum Game

Post by kondi754 »

adiekmann wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:40 am
Yes, they are on the Slitherine store page under its posting. Click on the "features' tab. I did not see them on Steam's site. In the past, they were always listed in the order that the come up, and here it looks to be the same.

19 scenarios list

- Fornebu
- Undisclosed Location: CZ
- Valkenburg Raid
- Grebbeberg
- Eben-Emael
- Hannut
- Sedan
- Battle of Arras
- Siege of Lille
- Dunkirk
- Battle of Abbeville
- Neufchateau
- Channel Island Training
- Dover
- Brighton
- Epsom
- Portsmouth
- Battle of Pindus
- Valona
Could you explain how to find it? :|

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