Is flammpanzer worth using?

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Buffalohump
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Re: Is flammpanzer worth using?

Post by Buffalohump » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:59 pm

I am sorry I was to brief in my message. I have not played main campaign for several years. I could not find a save so loaded the mid west scenario to look. I do not think I would deploy the Flammpanzer in that scenario. In the dlc’s you will want to build a large and diverse corps of units. I myself rotate units into reserve and place fresh units once they reach experience limit in dlcs. That being said. Once my army is sufficiently large I deploy in three groups with an air group. The two pincer(outside) groups are typically 7-9 units with my best tanks, mobile infantry, mobile artillery and one mobile AA unit. The central(main body) contains the bulk of my infantry and support units, including any Flammpanzers I might deploy. The main body I generally advance slowly up the main avenue of attack. The pincers on the outside I generally use to penetrate the enemy’s line, move in deep, and periodically swing in to encircle and destroy pockets against the main body. None of this is absolutely set in stone and I deploy units out of my core depending on the mission briefing, objectives, and how I read the map. It has been my experience that any unit can be useful. I myself am quite fond of using recon and para units but many do not. Anyway, if you are just now playing the dlcs have fun and remember to build a large diverse corps of units. You are going to need them.

Regards,

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Re: Is flammpanzer worth using?

Post by goose_2 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:05 pm

I am in Stalingrad scenarios in my Ultimate Playthrough and find my Heinz Rondorf in a Flamm an absolute gem on the battlefield. Yes I use suppression to maximum effect to reduce chances that the Flamm is damaged. But watching that 13 str Flamm get something like 15 points of units damage on those soft boys is just to sweet to pass up.

I think I will leave him back in Kotelnikova and Tatsinskaya, but will keep him around for more espionage in latter scenarios.
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LevV
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Re: Is flammpanzer worth using?

Post by LevV » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:57 am

Buffalohump wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:59 pm
I am sorry I was to brief in my message. I have not played main campaign for several years. I could not find a save so loaded the mid west scenario to look. I do not think I would deploy the Flammpanzer in that scenario. In the dlc’s you will want to build a large and diverse corps of units. I myself rotate units into reserve and place fresh units once they reach experience limit in dlcs. That being said. Once my army is sufficiently large I deploy in three groups with an air group. The two pincer(outside) groups are typically 7-9 units with my best tanks, mobile infantry, mobile artillery and one mobile AA unit. The central(main body) contains the bulk of my infantry and support units, including any Flammpanzers I might deploy. The main body I generally advance slowly up the main avenue of attack. The pincers on the outside I generally use to penetrate the enemy’s line, move in deep, and periodically swing in to encircle and destroy pockets against the main body. None of this is absolutely set in stone and I deploy units out of my core depending on the mission briefing, objectives, and how I read the map. It has been my experience that any unit can be useful. I myself am quite fond of using recon and para units but many do not. Anyway, if you are just now playing the dlcs have fun and remember to build a large diverse corps of units. You are going to need them.

Regards,
Thank you for your thoughts, that is valuable. I understand and agree to most of your lines, difference being for me it is usually all 3 groups are pretty much the same composition and i dont have room for slow advancing support group, i am afraid i will not make it in time in that way.
I also like using paras, but to my regret their effect seems quite limited (i come from assumption that i need to drop 3 units at a time, otherwise they most likely will be lost, scenario-specific; i.e. that could've been 3 tanks or even flampanzers on front line or flanking i/o just capturing one airport and suffering 50% losses). By the way is there option to not deploy paras airborne in the begining of scenario? i would like to train them in ground operation from time to time.
I am also attracted to idea of recons, but struggling to get good hero. what is your preference for recon type - wheeled or all-terrain? also dont understand the idea of pz2 recon mods, particularly that you cant upgrade from early pz2 tank to late pz2 recon.
I am in process of DLC and I am trying to build up reserves, and i also try to employ new tactics. Some scenarios are quite simple with ok casualities, some appear very difficult, very short on time and quite demanding for replacements, so i assume is that either for those particular scenarios i choose wrong pathes/composition or my overal deployed core structure must be reformed (or both).

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Re: Is flammpanzer worth using?

Post by goose_2 » Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:48 pm

Recons are tricky and most players are not successful at utilizing them. I love them and try to use them in the role they were intended, as scouts and as units to finish off weakened units.

I prefer the all terrain ones. They need a +1 Spotting hero on them as they need 4 spotting so they can see farther than the 3 spotting their units start out with. And also allows them to see 2 spaces ahead in inclement weather.

Both of my recons have +1 movement heroes in my Ultimate playthrough, but I am hopeful that the 2nd hero may end up getting a spotting hero. My Kradschutzen has a +1 Spotting hero.

That is what I find helpful is to lean into the strengths of the heroes that are awarded to the various unit classes you have.
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Moniker
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Re: Is flammpanzer worth using?

Post by Moniker » Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:55 am

Select the paratrooper and then press the ground/air unit view toggle button. The screen will then show the hexes where paratrooper can deploy on foot.

LevV
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Re: Is flammpanzer worth using?

Post by LevV » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:36 am

Moniker wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:55 am
Select the paratrooper and then press the ground/air unit view toggle button. The screen will then show the hexes where paratrooper can deploy on foot.
Thanks a lot :D As obvious as it is strangely it never came to my mind before.

LevV
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Re: Is flammpanzer worth using?

Post by LevV » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:55 am

goose_2 wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:48 pm
Recons are tricky and most players are not successful at utilizing them. I love them and try to use them in the role they were intended, as scouts and as units to finish off weakened units.

I prefer the all terrain ones. They need a +1 Spotting hero on them as they need 4 spotting so they can see farther than the 3 spotting their units start out with. And also allows them to see 2 spaces ahead in inclement weather.

Both of my recons have +1 movement heroes in my Ultimate playthrough, but I am hopeful that the 2nd hero may end up getting a spotting hero. My Kradschutzen has a +1 Spotting hero.

That is what I find helpful is to lean into the strengths of the heroes that are awarded to the various unit classes you have.
I see in your post, as well as in most topics i read, that people are having all the good heroes all around on key units and same time you mention "I am hopeful".
I dont get how do you get for example 2 recons each with +1 movement (is it purely random and just the coincidence?) or if not random why would you mention hope?
I only restart turn when i get obviously bad hero, and 99% i dont get any hero at all as a result. For my only recon i'm trying to employ it as much as i reasonably can through GC 39-41 and didnt get any hero yet (i am hopefull first one will be +1 spotting, but having said above, it could take forever). I didnt even get any spotting on any of my inf to make it cavalry or motorbike.
I am just happy on this playthrough i got +1 movement on 88 very early :D

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Re: Is flammpanzer worth using?

Post by goose_2 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:31 pm

LevV wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:55 am
goose_2 wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 1:48 pm
Recons are tricky and most players are not successful at utilizing them. I love them and try to use them in the role they were intended, as scouts and as units to finish off weakened units.

I prefer the all terrain ones. They need a +1 Spotting hero on them as they need 4 spotting so they can see farther than the 3 spotting their units start out with. And also allows them to see 2 spaces ahead in inclement weather.

Both of my recons have +1 movement heroes in my Ultimate playthrough, but I am hopeful that the 2nd hero may end up getting a spotting hero. My Kradschutzen has a +1 Spotting hero.

That is what I find helpful is to lean into the strengths of the heroes that are awarded to the various unit classes you have.
I see in your post, as well as in most topics i read, that people are having all the good heroes all around on key units and same time you mention "I am hopeful".
I dont get how do you get for example 2 recons each with +1 movement (is it purely random and just the coincidence?) or if not random why would you mention hope?
I only restart turn when i get obviously bad hero, and 99% i dont get any hero at all as a result. For my only recon i'm trying to employ it as much as i reasonably can through GC 39-41 and didnt get any hero yet (i am hopefull first one will be +1 spotting, but having said above, it could take forever). I didnt even get any spotting on any of my inf to make it cavalry or motorbike.
I am just happy on this playthrough i got +1 movement on 88 very early :D
I did not try to get movement heroes on either recon, I just accepted them when they came. I generally accept the bad with the good heroes for my units. I use the ones with great heroes and often sell the bad. I have not so much sold the bad on my Ultimate playthrough as having experienced units helps tremendously and is very difficult to acquire at this difficulty level.

I would have preferred spotting on my recons. I have received a plethora of +1 Movement heroes this go on Ultimate difficulty, and only 1 Spotting hero.

It is random, but I sure have been blessed with a lot of movement heroes. Movement is really a gamechanger, and one of my favorites for most units, but recons need spotting to really make them shine.

I am hoping they are so blessed with their 2nd heroes. 3rd heroes on recons and on Strategic Bombers are extremely rare. Heck 2nd heroes are rare for Strat Bombers
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heinzrondorf
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Re: Is flammpanzer worth using?

Post by heinzrondorf » Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:27 pm

LevV wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:55 am
I see in your post, as well as in most topics i read, that people are having all the good heroes all around on key units and same time you mention "I am hopeful".
I dont get how do you get for example 2 recons each with +1 movement (is it purely random and just the coincidence?) or if not random why would you mention hope?
I only restart turn when i get obviously bad hero, and 99% i dont get any hero at all as a result. For my only recon i'm trying to employ it as much as i reasonably can through GC 39-41 and didnt get any hero yet (i am hopefull first one will be +1 spotting, but having said above, it could take forever). I didnt even get any spotting on any of my inf to make it cavalry or motorbike.
I am just happy on this playthrough i got +1 movement on 88 very early :D
Unless you hero farm like goose above :) I think people reload to get the heroes they crave more than they admit. I admit I will reload if I get something atrocious, especially as my FIRST hero, like a move hero on a fighter or a spotting hero on artillery. The longer the campaign and war goes on the less I care about the heroes I receive. I will not reload and of course not sell a great, experienced unit in 44 or 45 because it receives a poor second or third hero and by then you have so much going on I can't personally be too bothered about the final heroes. Also in my opinion the heroes become less important, at least for certain unit types such as tanks, because the late war models have so high stats the heroes do not change as much as in the early years of the war. Having a, say +2 attack, hero on a Panzer II makes a big difference in 1939 but not so much on a Tiger II in 1945.

However, the first heroes are incredibly important. For me the first hero decides what type of unit I will convert/upgrade the unit into. You can then depending on the hero either decide to upgrade the unit into something which exaggerates its strengths (like an attack hero on Nebelwerfer) or take the other route, which I usually do, to upgrade it into something where the hero negates the units weakness (like a range hero on Stug IIIB) or an ideal combination of both, like movement hero on 8.8cm that you have :) .

It is a bit off topic but I would say that some heroes are more useful for certain unit classes/types in the early years of the war whereas in the later years other types of heroes are more useful even for the same type of unit class. For instance my example with Panzers above. In the early years you would probably want a +A or +D hero for your tanks since the tanks are mobile but fragile but at the time of the Tiger I, Tiger II and Maus a +M movement hero is more useful since these tanks are slow but powerful.

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