Heroes assignment

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adiekmann
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Heroes assignment

Post by adiekmann » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:29 pm

I have been wondering this for some time and finally decided to ask.

In PC1, heroes were awarded when your units reached a certain experience level with the possibility of earlier. The rolls for a hero had decreasing/increasing probability for +1, +2, and +3. It was random though so through luck you could get seemingly several +3 heroes in a row or conversely none for what seemed like forever.

I understand that the heroes you are assigned at the beginning of the campaign are set for each mission/map.

My question is this: Do all the heroes (good, bad, and medium quality) have an equal probability of being chosen? Or does the game have any system built in the weighs their value somehow and make some less or more likely than others in a way to make sure your heroes throughout the campaign are not too good, nor all bad? My experience playing the game suggests no, but I wanted to throw this out there in case anyone knows of a definitive answer.

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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by Schneides42 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:08 pm

I am pretty sure I read that they are all predetermined at the start of a campaign. For DLCs I would assume that these are set for each DLC rather than a core that you may import. That is, importing the same core into two runs of 1939 from SCW would get you a different set of heroes.

dalfrede
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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by dalfrede » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:16 am

The heroes are assigned 'randomly'.

However computers never do anything randomly, it is called pseudo-random.
Computers use random number generators which require a seed.
The seed is stored at the start of the campaign, hence once in the campaign, restarting scenarios won't give new random numbers.

If you restart a campaign with 'Killer Team' you will get new Heroes each time.
But you can not restart the first scenario to do this, you must start from the main menu.

One advantage of this is you can restart a campaign with just 'killer team', when you get a set you like, you save the game,
restart the scenario and pick the full set of traits you want.
You get the killer team you like.

I have not tested what happens if you don't pick killer team the second time.
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.

Magic1111
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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by Magic1111 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:07 pm

adiekmann wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:29 pm
My question is this: Do all the heroes (good, bad, and medium quality) have an equal probability of being chosen? Or does the game have any system built in the weighs their value somehow and make some less or more likely than others in a way to make sure your heroes throughout the campaign are not too good, nor all bad? My experience playing the game suggests no, but I wanted to throw this out there in case anyone knows of a definitive answer.
I've played through all of the available content in Panzer Corps 2 and my experience is that you get heroes you don't necessarily need a lot more often, some even double and triple.

I got several heroes who generate prestige per turn and entrenchment killer, or Field repairs.

In the normal campaigns (all paths) I didn't get a Zero Slot hero at all by the end. Other strong heroes we become much less frequent than normal heroes.

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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by jeannot le lapin » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:12 pm

Magic1111 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:07 pm
I've played through all of the available content in Panzer Corps 2 and my experience is that you get heroes you don't necessarily need a lot more often, some even double and triple.
We should be able to resell some useless heroes :lol:

Magic1111
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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by Magic1111 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:59 pm

jeannot le lapin wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:12 pm
We should be able to resell some useless heroes
Yes, but as long as I still have slots available in units, I assign all heroes.

In the course of the forthcoming DLC's it can happen that I dismiss double heroes.

jeannot le lapin
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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by jeannot le lapin » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:15 pm

With all these heroes forming a long list, I find that the scroll in the heroes window is not really optimal.

Magic1111
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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by Magic1111 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:30 pm

jeannot le lapin wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:15 pm
With all these heroes forming a long list, I find that the scroll in the heroes window is not really optimal.
I have long wanted a hero management where you can move them back and forth between the units.

adiekmann
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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by adiekmann » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:47 pm

Magic1111 wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:07 pm
adiekmann wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:29 pm
My question is this: Do all the heroes (good, bad, and medium quality) have an equal probability of being chosen? Or does the game have any system built in the weighs their value somehow and make some less or more likely than others in a way to make sure your heroes throughout the campaign are not too good, nor all bad? My experience playing the game suggests no, but I wanted to throw this out there in case anyone knows of a definitive answer.
I've played through all of the available content in Panzer Corps 2 and my experience is that you get heroes you don't necessarily need a lot more often, some even double and triple.

I got several heroes who generate prestige per turn and entrenchment killer, or Field repairs.

In the normal campaigns (all paths) I didn't get a Zero Slot hero at all by the end. Other strong heroes we become much less frequent than normal heroes.
I've played them all multiple times too, but that's still a rather small sample size and why I threw it out there for the community to respond. Yes, I seem to get more crappy heroes than good. But it is seemingly random and chance. I started a replay for the upcoming campaign next month. I began in SCW and off the bat (thanks Killer Team) I got 2 Zero Slots plus Double Attack! What phenomenal luck! My next three heroes were No Surrender (blah), Lightning Attack (good), and another Double Attack (hurray!). But I'm near the end of the campaign now and I have gotten total shit since. That's what got me started on this thread. Is it just the algorithm evening things out?

In PC1 if you didn't like your hero you could reload and hope for something better next time. I guess you can cheat and do the same thing here, but it's just I do want variety of heroes, just not the largely useless ones. Like, why do they even exist? I imagine it was designed that way and a little later they implemented the ability to cash them in for a thousand prestige each. However, I would rather have good or medium heroes without cheating.

Some here in the forum have previously suggested that they add some sort of system where you can choose, trade in, or whatever your heroes. I understand the desire not to unbalance the game and for those who do, that's what the cheat codes are for. I just would like to do so without the guilty conscience and not get 2/3 of my heroes sucking.

And that's what I'm doing now. I am playing through SCW with my own made-up rules where I may not have more than one of any single hero. The variety seems nice while I replace the truly worthless ones. It remains to be seen what I will do a couple DLC campaigns down the road...

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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by econ21 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:14 am

adiekmann wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:47 pm
I began in SCW and off the bat (thanks Killer Team) I got 2 Zero Slots plus Double Attack! What phenomenal luck! My next three heroes were No Surrender (blah), Lightning Attack (good), and another Double Attack (hurray!). But I'm near the end of the campaign now and I have gotten total shit since. That's what got me started on this thread. Is it just the algorithm evening things out?
I've been told that Killer Team draws from a subsample of the better heroes. So it may not be pure luck that the three heroes you started with are better than the ones that follow.

[I've not tried Killer Team: in principle, it seemed rather weak to me as heroes, while not "total shit", are often nothing much to write home about. But when I was told it gives you three of the better heroes, I could see why killer team is a fan favourite. I plan to pick it in my next campaign as heroes are fun.]

adiekmann
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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by adiekmann » Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:54 am

econ21 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:14 am
adiekmann wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:47 pm
I began in SCW and off the bat (thanks Killer Team) I got 2 Zero Slots plus Double Attack! What phenomenal luck! My next three heroes were No Surrender (blah), Lightning Attack (good), and another Double Attack (hurray!). But I'm near the end of the campaign now and I have gotten total shit since. That's what got me started on this thread. Is it just the algorithm evening things out?
I've been told that Killer Team draws from a subsample of the better heroes. So it may not be pure luck that the three heroes you started with are better than the ones that follow.

[I've not tried Killer Team: in principle, it seemed rather weak to me as heroes, while not "total shit", are often nothing much to write home about. But when I was told it gives you three of the better heroes, I could see why killer team is a fan favourite. I plan to pick it in my next campaign as heroes are fun.]
Oh, I have gotten three lousy heroes from Killer Team many times. More often than not actually.

Magic1111
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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by Magic1111 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:54 am

adiekmann wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:54 am
Oh, I have gotten three lousy heroes from Killer Team many times. More often than not actually.
Sorry for the dumb question...but I always read here about "Killer Team".

What does that mean in this context?

I don't understand, but maybe it's because English is not my native language.

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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by sebb81 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:51 am

Magic1111 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:54 am

Sorry for the dumb question...but I always read here about "Killer Team".

What does that mean in this context?

I don't understand, but maybe it's because English is not my native language.
Killer Team is a trait you can choose for your General at beginning of a campaign like Master of Blitzkrieg, Perimeter Control etc. You will get three or five heros right from the start, mosttimes this are "rare" heroes like zero slot etc.

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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by Magic1111 » Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:27 pm

sebb81 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:51 am
Killer Team is a trait you can choose for your General at beginning of a campaign like Master of Blitzkrieg, Perimeter Control etc. You will get three or five heros right from the start, mosttimes this are "rare" heroes like zero slot etc.
Ah, now I understand, thanks!

In German language it is of course different... I don't even know what the name of the trait is in german... :D

adiekmann
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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by adiekmann » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:06 pm

Magic1111 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 1:27 pm
sebb81 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:51 am
Killer Team is a trait you can choose for your General at beginning of a campaign like Master of Blitzkrieg, Perimeter Control etc. You will get three or five heros right from the start, mosttimes this are "rare" heroes like zero slot etc.
Ah, now I understand, thanks!

In German language it is of course different... I don't even know what the name of the trait is in german... :D

Eigentlich bekommt man normalerweise nur drei Helden mit der Eigenschaft "Killer Team". Wenn Sie jedoch Ihre Kampagne in AO39 fortsetzen, erhalten Sie vier. Ich nehme an, es ist eins für das Ende von Madrid '39 plus die normalen drei für Killer Team.

adiekmann
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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by adiekmann » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:18 pm

sebb81 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:51 am
Magic1111 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:54 am

Sorry for the dumb question...but I always read here about "Killer Team".

What does that mean in this context?

I don't understand, but maybe it's because English is not my native language.
Killer Team is a trait you can choose for your General at beginning of a campaign like Master of Blitzkrieg, Perimeter Control etc. You will get three or five heros right from the start, mosttimes this are "rare" heroes like zero slot etc.
Actually, no, you normally don't get uber heroes automatically with Killer Team. It is random too. What I have noticed though is if you don't import your core from SCW, then they DO give you four strong heroes. I notice just experimenting that they always seem to include a Rapid Fire 2x. I believe this is to try to make up for the fact that you are beginning with an otherwise hero-less core because each campaign is designed to be playable as a starting point not dependent on the strength of your imported core. That's also why they all begin with some stars too.

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Re: Heroes assignment

Post by dalfrede » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:49 pm

adiekmann wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:18 pm
. . . What I have noticed though is if you don't import your core from SCW, then they DO give you four strong heroes. I notice just experimenting that they always seem to include a Rapid Fire 2x. I believe this is to try to make up for the fact that you are beginning with an otherwise hero-less core because each campaign is designed to be playable as a starting point not dependent on the strength of your imported core.
Yes, if you don't import an army you get a set of good heroes. These are preset and not random.
This has been stated by Kerensky, for the reasons given. This is true for AO39, AO40, . . .
There comes a time on every project when it is time to shoot the engineer and ship the damn thing.

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