World at War AAR MrPlow vs jjdenver (no MrPlow allowed)

After action reports for Commander Europe at War.

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jjdenver
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World at War AAR MrPlow vs jjdenver (no MrPlow allowed)

Post by jjdenver » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:08 pm

Hi,

A friend asked me to comment by email to him about my game w/ MrPlow. I then decided to post the email to the forum in case there's any interest in the German perspective of this game. Here's the email pasted:

"CEAW turns are shorter than playing for example my turns in AT WaW scenario playing Western Allies. This is probably because there is no need to arrange SFT's, no complex production, and supply is very simple.

I probably spend about 30-40 minutes playing a turn in my games once USSR is in the war. Before USSR maybe 20 minutes.

As for estimate of my position - I haven't played a full game yet. I'm in one game as Allies in late 43, one game as Germany (this game) in late 42, and one game as allies in early 41. So I don't know how the end game goes really. It's just a fascinating game - I think about it all the time.

The course of the game from my perspective was that I had a successful early conquest of France but then I chose to try Sealion. Having no experience with Sealion and waiting too long to decide to launch it, I really botched it quite badly even though it ultimately succeeded. However the cost in time, PP's, oil was far too high. So I probably lost the game right there because this made my invasion of Russia weak, and late. I barely got into Russia before winter hit and by spring 42 Russia was very strong so I couldn't go on the offensive.

However there are a lot of pros in my favor at the moment I think.
1) I only have to hold Berlin until May 45 for a minor victory
2) It's nearing end of 42 and Western Allies have no ports in Europe other than 2 ports in western part of North Africa. This is really huge because it means they have to spend a large part of 43 just getting into Europe and there is a lot of ground to take.
3) I have been very careful w/ oil - well as careful as I could be given the need to conduct offensive operations. I don't needlessly move oil-burning units and when I do move them if they aren't attacking I try to rail them so no oil is burned. I entered summer of '42 with about 500 oil and due to Russian offensives am now down to 300 oil.
4) Soviets tried an offensive in summer '42 which I think was a mistake. While they cost Germany some manpower and oil, the Soviets took huge losses....not just infantry losses but most of their fighters and armor was eliminated as well as a few leaders (which will return but it might be up to a year). Germany did not take heavy losses at all, and the Soviets gained no ground. I feel that the losses taken by USSR will mean stalemate on the East Front in 43, but if they'd waited until 43 they might have started an offensive in 43 that could not be stopped. Now USSR will enter 43 without experienced air units.
5) Germany has a very large production base since it holds most of Europe and England. This has allowed me to create a large luftwaffe early and it is steadily gaining experience so that by 43 and 44 the allies will face not only a large Luftwaffe but also one where most units have 2,3,4 levels of experience built up.
6) Since Allies don't have England they can't strategic bomb Germany including the oil resources in Germany.
7) Germany has 5 fully upgraded subs, and Italy has 1. These are very powerful vs shipping in the Atlantic.

Of course the 2 weak points of Germany are always present.

1) Germany only has 300 oil remaining. This is probably sufficient to allow Germany to operate normally into '44 as long as Germany holds Romania. It costs for example 4 oil to move/attack with an armor unit (I have only 4 or 5 of these), 4 oil to fly a TAC, and 2 oil to fly a FTR. Ships/subs cost 1.
2) Germany is down to about 80% manpower level. At 75% all new units produced have -1 quality which seems to be a terrible penalty. Thus I guess below 75% Germany practically speaking can't produce new units.

Some of my big mistakes were launching a botched Sealion - I should have chosen another strategic option. Also I forgot that Soviets get lend lease shipped through the north and 2 turns ago I happened to have a destroyer sailing north and glimpsed an 86 point Soviet lend lease convoy steaming by unmolested. Now I realize that I should have been savaging these convoys for the last year+. Doh. Perhaps I should have waited until 42 to go into Russia but I guess they would have DOW'ed me and I wouldn't have destroyed any of the border units and might be in a worse position than I am after my incredibly weak Barbarossa. I have no idea whether DOW'ing them increases their production vs letting them DOW Germany but I would guess not.

The mod does a fantastic job of setting up oil and manpower problems that Germany really faced. The mod also makes it almost impossible to fully conquer USSR (which seems historical to me). Germany can cripple USSR but not totally destroy it easily. So I think a German player has to look at objectives realistically - Germany is unlikely to fully defeat the Allies but a major victory is defined as holding Rome and Berlin in May 45 and this is quite possible I think. A minor victory is just holding Berlin in May 45.

Overall the game is unbelievably fun and quite simple to understand with very deep strategy. As I go through it I'm learning small lessons and I think my opponent is doing the same. Hopefully I'll be more competent in my next game. :)

JJ"

rkr1958
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Re: World at War AAR MrPlow vs jjdenver (no MrPlow allowed)

Post by rkr1958 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:24 pm

jjdenver wrote:1) Germany only has 300 oil remaining. This is probably sufficient to allow Germany to operate normally through most of '44 as long as Germany holds Romania. It costs for example 4 oil to move/attack with an armor unit (I have only 4 or 5 of these), 4 oil to fly a TAC, and 2 oil to fly a FTR. Ships/subs cost 1.
2) Germany is down to about 80% manpower level. At 75% all new units produced have -1 quality which seems to be a terrible penalty. Thus I guess below 75% Germany practically speaking can't produce new units.
Note that if you move and attack with an armor unit that this will cost you 8 oil points. Four for the move and four for the attack. If you move and do not attack this costs 4. If you attack and do not move this cost 4. Advance after a successful combat costs NO additional oil in all cases.

Similarly for ships and subs. If they move and attack this cost you 2 oil points (1 for the move and 1 for the attack).

80% manpower at this point is Great! Even below 75% isn't that bad. The -1 quality for manpower between 50 and 75% can be compensated for by good leaders. It's when you drop below 50% and start suffering a -1 in survivability that manpower really starts to hurt you.

Peter Stauffenberg
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Post by Peter Stauffenberg » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:45 pm

I think you're doing very well in this game. I agree that the Russians overestimated his capabilities and lost vital units like leaders, air and armor. They can't do that again if they want to win.

You could continue to build many corps units until you get close to 50% manpower. -1 quality is not so bad. It would be good for you at some time soon to prepare for building a strategic reserve you can place in central Germany. This reserve can quickly be railed to where it's needed the most. E. g. France if Overlord starts early, Italy if the Allied offensive in the Med is successful or to Russia if the Russians have more firepower than you expect. Corps units have ok firepower offensively and defensively and they don't burn oil. To really make a difference it's good to have 1-2 armor units and some air in the reserve. They can rail to the needed area and kill invaders at the shoreline.

Your task is quite easy now. Delay the Allies so long in Africa so they can't invade Italy in force until it's late 1943. The terrain there is so bad for the attacker so you can keep them there for a long time. The Russians will eventually become too powerful for the Germans and then you might have to retreat. But the Dvina / Dnepr line will help you more than the Russians.

The Luftwaffe is quite strong so a good strategy could be to target his armor units and bombard each tank with 2 air units. That will cripple the Russian offensive and it will cost a lot of PP's to repair. So he must withdraw his armor until it's time for a major offensive. Then you will have a quiet front line.

I think it's definitely possible to hold Berlin and Rome till the end. You might even hold Paris and / or London if the Allies don't invade at the right time. If the Allies land in France in force then the Siegfried line will hold for quite some time if you place corps units there and not garrisons. The Ostwall can hold for a long time in the east as well when the Russian hordes knock at Berlin's backdoor.

If you can capture the Iraqi oilfields then you won't have oil problems even if they will later be liberated. Protecting Ploesti is very important so having several fighters within range of the oilfield will help against strategic bombers from Crimea.

raffo80
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Post by raffo80 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:14 pm

if an armor is attacked, does it consume oil?
/
Gabriele

rkr1958
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Post by rkr1958 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:29 am

raffo80 wrote:if an armor is attacked, does it consume oil?
No. Neither does a motorized corps. But air and ships do.

MarkWayneClark
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Post by MarkWayneClark » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:48 am

Sorry to go off topic, but can I ask what is AT WaW?

jjdenver
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Post by jjdenver » Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:34 pm

MarkClark wrote:Sorry to go off topic, but can I ask what is AT WaW?
Advanced Tactics World at War scenario - great game.

jjdenver
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Post by jjdenver » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:06 pm

Anyone know how to post pics on this forum in regular size (embedded) so they are easy to see?

rkr1958
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Post by rkr1958 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:09 pm

jjdenver wrote:Anyone know how to post pics on this forum in regular size (embedded) so they are easy to see?
I'm not sure I'm following what you're asking. Do you me something like this?Image

jjdenver
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Post by jjdenver » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:30 pm

Yes - like that. I know how to do it on matrix forums but it doesn't seem to be supported on this forum (image hosting that is)

rkr1958
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Post by rkr1958 » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:35 pm

jjdenver wrote:Yes - like that. I know how to do it on matrix forums but it doesn't seem to be supported on this forum (image hosting that is)
You have to host your image on your own (e.g., web space provided by your ISP). Then when you post your image using the images tags, [img]<url>[/img].

jjdenver
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Post by jjdenver » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:36 am

I've updated the AAR on Matrix forums since they allow image hosting.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2101447

jjdenver
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Post by jjdenver » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:46 am

I realized tonight while doing my turn that I'm breaking a BJR house rule. Here is what I wrote to Mr Plow

Hm - I was just thinking about how dominant my air is and I went back to re-read the BJR rules.

"No more than one air unit per turn may execute an attack upon any enemy air unit at its
airbase. If you attack another unit and a fighters intercepts then this attack is not counted
as an attack on the fighter’s airbase. So it’s possible to let another air unit attack the
fighter’s air base.
Exception: when a ground unit starts its turn adjacent to an enemy air unit,
the enemy air unit is deemed to be utilizing its manpower in a ground role
(e.g. Luftwaffe infantry). In this context, “ground unit” includes transports
attempting to land. This rule prevents a player from stationing air units in
coastal hexes to thwart an invasion. Any air unit being used in such a role
may be attacked as if it was a ground unit and as such air attacks against
this unit are governed by rule 16.
14. Air attacks against submarines are outlined in the section “Submarine Rules”.
15.All other air attacks are limited to two per hex (with the exception of 16b)"

I realized that I've been breaking this rule. Probably a dozen times in the last 2 years of war.

I would fly a FTR to air strike a ground unit, let your FTR intercept, then fly 2 FTR's to strike your FTR at its base. I was combining the phrase
"If you attack another unit and a fighters intercepts then this attack is not counted
as an attack on the fighter’s airbase."
with
"All other air attacks are limited to two per hex "

Now that I re-read the rule it is very clear that this tactic is illegal under the house rules.

So I've gained an unfair advantage and I'm not sure how to correct it.

Obviously I'm quite sorry and apologize and I'm not sure how to fix this.

I could send half my FTR's away and not use them anymore as penalty? Or I could disband them if that's an option in the game - not sure if it is?

Any other suggestions. Sorry man - I did not know I was breaking the rule until I decided to re-read it while thinking about how I'm killing off your FTR's lately.

jjdenver
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Post by jjdenver » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:09 pm

MrPlow and I have agreed on actions to be taken by Germany to mitigate the damage caused by the illegal air tactic Germany used.

Germany will send away 7 FTR's to central Germany. They will return at this rate:
Sep 43: 1 FTR returns
Nov 43: 1 FTR returns
Jan 44: 1 FTR returns
Mar 44: 1 FTR returns
May 44: 1 FTR returns
Jul 44: 1 FTR returns
Sep 44: last FTR returns

AAR updated at
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2101447

jjdenver
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Post by jjdenver » Sat May 02, 2009 10:42 pm


KingHunter3059
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Post by KingHunter3059 » Sun May 03, 2009 2:12 am

JJ - If you use a free Photo Hosting site, you can upload your screen shots here.

Jay

jjdenver
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Post by jjdenver » Mon May 04, 2009 4:30 am


jjdenver
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Post by jjdenver » Wed May 06, 2009 1:32 pm


jjdenver
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Post by jjdenver » Sun May 10, 2009 1:38 am

Game ended. AAR updated w/ final stats, etc.

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