air battle Heroes?

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scorehouse
Master Sergeant - U-boat
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air battle Heroes?

Post by scorehouse » Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:18 pm

besides 1.5x, double attack and move, zero/reduced slots, do Heroes like envelopment, overwhelming attack, shock tactics, etc. benefit.?

adiekmann
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by adiekmann » Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:52 am

scorehouse wrote:
Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:18 pm
besides 1.5x, double attack and move, zero/reduced slots, do Heroes like envelopment, overwhelming attack, shock tactics, etc. benefit.?
Envelopment and Overwhelming Attack are completely wasted on air units. They work as well on aircraft as a First Aid hero. Shock Tactics is a different story, however, and can be a clever tactic to use before attacking with another ground unit forcing it to surrender (provided that your attack created the right conditions to force it to retreat). There are other heroes that have limited or no value in aircraft, as there are heroes that are equally useless on other classes of units. Just read what the description of the hero says, and then think about it: Does this apply to this unit of mine? Worst case, you can always test it to find out for yourself!

makoto14
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by makoto14 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:19 am

i am waiting for overrun hero to work on air units. imagine a 20 strength me262 one shoting all those paratroopers in the last scenario of ahistorical US.

scorehouse
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by scorehouse » Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:57 pm

the elusive Overrun Hero! all the way to the big Pre Stalingrad Air Battle, still no Overrun, Fast Rebase, Double Move, Double Support, Field Repair, and very strange Provocateur Heroes. I got resilient, first aid, prudent, avenger, leadership out the wazoo! saving them thinking/hoping that in the 4 3 they'll be another one of those mega prestige surrender exchanges for the King Tiger, Me262, the Karl, etc. then I'll be able to surrender these overstocked Heroes to replenish my cash. as the war drags on I'm sure prestige will become more valuable as units and replacements skyrocket in price. kinda like groceries

adiekmann
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by adiekmann » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:18 pm

scorehouse wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:57 pm
the elusive Overrun Hero! all the way to the big Pre Stalingrad Air Battle, still no Overrun, Fast Rebase, Double Move, Double Support, Field Repair, and very strange Provocateur Heroes. I got resilient, first aid, prudent, avenger, leadership out the wazoo! saving them thinking/hoping that in the 4 3 they'll be another one of those mega prestige surrender exchanges for the King Tiger, Me262, the Karl, etc. then I'll be able to surrender these overstocked Heroes to replenish my cash. as the war drags on I'm sure prestige will become more valuable as units and replacements skyrocket in price. kinda like groceries
Hmmm....Sounds like you got a lousy roll. That's happened to me many times and why I usually preview them all to make sure they don't all suck or are totally overpowered. I once got three Overwhelming Attack heroes and three Envelopment/Shock Tactics heroes in the same DLC...or I would have if I hadn't prescreened them. Another time almost all of my heroes in a given DLC were of the same four types. Crazy!

sakura006
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by sakura006 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:59 pm

Fast rebase and first strike are the better one in my experience. Rapid fire is good on any units but you never get enough of them. Vigilant could also be a strong hero on fighters, but it is more needed by other units.

scorehouse
Master Sergeant - U-boat
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by scorehouse » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:11 pm

speaking of First Strike, can't that work against you? what triggers it? anytime a unit attacks one of your units?

StuG_Tutor
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by StuG_Tutor » Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:16 pm

My all time favorite air unit was an overstrengthened fighter with Double Attack, Hit and Run AND Lightning Attack(?). The last hero allowed it to attack escorted bombers without triggering the escort's support fire. Enemy bombers didn't last long in that campaign--come to think of it neither did any of the other enemy planes :D

sakura006
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by sakura006 » Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:47 pm

scorehouse wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:11 pm
speaking of First Strike, can't that work against you? what triggers it? anytime a unit attacks one of your units?
From what I read in the combat log. The first strike changes your initiative to 99. So if both unit has first strike, they should fire at the same time.

scorehouse
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by scorehouse » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:16 pm

"work against you" ! was referring to an understrengthed/under armed/damaged unit using the First Strike Hero to attack a superior unit. similar to having Provocateur on an entrenched Heroed up KV. Emil, etc. but 99% initiative may change all that?

VirgilInTheSKY
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by VirgilInTheSKY » Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:32 pm

scorehouse wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:16 pm
"work against you" ! was referring to an understrengthed/under armed/damaged unit using the First Strike Hero to attack a superior unit. similar to having Provocateur on an entrenched Heroed up KV. Emil, etc. but 99% initiative may change all that?
First Strike unit always attack first, nothing else. If you attack a superior unit with it, you still strike first, but this does not means that you will not take return fire and get reduced to dust.

scorehouse
Master Sergeant - U-boat
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by scorehouse » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:13 pm

that's what I thought and was trying to convey

adiekmann
1st Lieutenant - 15 cm sFH 18
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by adiekmann » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:29 pm

That's what's good about Hit and Run. It is essentially a No Retaliation hero for high initiative units, like good tanks and fighters. The benefit of First Strike though is it will allow you to shoot first when attacked too, not just when initiate the attack on your turn. (I think VirginInTheSky pointed that out to me. I thought it only worked on your turn, not when the AI attacks you! Up until then, I had been putting First Strike and Readiness on the same fighter until I learned that point. :oops: )

scorehouse
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by scorehouse » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:47 am

seems like my fighters rarely get attacked? in the 4 2, the air battles involve various bombers to clear out ground units. the AI seems to just go after them

VirgilInTheSKY
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by VirgilInTheSKY » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:57 am

scorehouse wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:47 am
seems like my fighters rarely get attacked? in the 4 2, the air battles involve various bombers to clear out ground units. the AI seems to just go after them
Some enemy fighters are scripted to escort their bombers, thus not going for your fighters.

euramer
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Re: air battle Heroes?

Post by euramer » Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:21 pm

First strike gives also a fighting chance to some units, I am thinking in particular to long range heavy fighters/bombers prototypes, which have a low initiative. A few scenarios need long ranged bombers which can either defend without escort or attack as the last killer of a pack.

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