In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Field of Glory II is a turn-based tactical game set during the Rise of Rome from 280 BC to 25 BC.
Holien
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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by Holien » Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:12 pm

deeter wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:07 pm
EGL really is great fun but can be overshadowed by competitive leagues. Regarding the in-game chat screen, I wish it wouldn't come up until the end of the replay as it often spoils the suspense of watching your opponent's move play out. I would prefer seeing stuff like "Sorry about your general" and such after I see their move.

Deeter
Good point and I think I have been guilty of that and will try and modify words to not spoil surprises, but this is balanced with me wanting to show a bit of empathy and care to help make it less agony when crap happens.

What I like about the fluff miester and his videos is you get a bit empthay as you hear him talk through the turn, I have to remember that in text this does not come through always. I am surprised that Snuggles has the time to type anything with the amount of games he plays and records, great to watch though so keep it up...

As for the chat alwasy being at the end screen we could perhapos ask Richard if this is technically possible? I think it would be a good idea.

deeter
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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by deeter » Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:49 pm

I think that and email notifications saying who the move is from would be great additions and entirely possible.

Deeter

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by SLancaster » Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:49 pm

Holien wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:52 pm
deeter wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:21 pm
Holien, I enjoyed chatting in our game so much that I was sorry to see it end, aside from my crushing defeat that is. As I'm here for the social interaction, I prefer chatty players and suspect some players' silence is either an attempt to psych you out or to demonstrate their contempt for you as an opponent. Not fun. Also, I have found that some of the most vocal players are from non-English speakers so the language barrier doesn't seem to be a problem. I dislike players who say nothing at the end of the game. Rude.

Kronnenblatt's Evergreen League is intended to cater to chatty players and is very casual. You might give EGL a try.

Deeter
Thanks and it was an interesting discussion. It can only be topped by a discussion I had in the last Slitherine tourney against someone I had no idea who they were...

During the course of the chat we talked about college and what we did, it transpired that we went to the same college in the UK.

So a bit more chat and we were there roughly at the same time period...

A bit more chat and the Chap named my NAME!!! As I am pretty protective of my real name I was somewhat surprised and shocked... What black Magic....

So I was at college in the 80's a few years back and after a bit more chat I discovered that I had shared a house with the gamer for a year and I never knew he was a gamer!!! Mind you back then he was more into beer and other activities... :wink:

So what a wonderful co-incidence that was only discovered through a bit of in game chat.

We were not close friends I had answered an Advert for house mates and as he was on a different course we never hung out socially, but I do remember him as he persuaded me to apply for the Master Degree he was doing and that set me on a very different life path, so after all these years I was able to thank him for his advice and catch up with him... Small world..

So thank you for every one who has responded and given me their POV it has been useful...
A truly great story! What are the chances indeed. You might like to read about this!

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... SApp_Other
YouTube channel for FoG 2: Ancients and Medieval.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr-hmTilBDJu7994Nxl-54g

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by Buttons » Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:46 am

Some people are awkward, I wouldn’t think too much of it. I like some back and forth, but if the other person is silent that’s fine too, I enjoy a good battle more than good conversation.

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by ray552 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:49 pm

deeter wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:22 pm
What a great story. Life is stranger than fiction. It's probably just as well that you didn't know about his gaming. You might have spent those college years gaming instead of drink, chasing girls and maybe studying.
"I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and [gaming]. The rest I just squandered."
- Holien, channeling George Best

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by GiveWarAchance » Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:21 pm

Silence is golden unless it is a proven decent person. I only tried PBEM briefly when Fog2 was new cause everyone I played was camping on the edge of the map hiding on hills behind rivers so it got too depressing for me. But as for ingame chat, the only messages I got were cryptic bragging like one thug moved all his stuff backwards into the top right corner and made me march across the whole map to get there over a dozen turns, and then my units routed as soon as they tried to attack his army in the hills so he messaged me "This is a really great game! I love this!!"

And that was the very last PBEM game I tried. Single player is the only way to get a fair battle without cheating and weird bragging.

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by Doyley50 » Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:26 am

GiveWarAchance wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:21 pm
Silence is golden unless it is a proven decent person. I only tried PBEM briefly when Fog2 was new cause everyone I played was camping on the edge of the map hiding on hills behind rivers so it got too depressing for me. But as for ingame chat, the only messages I got were cryptic bragging like one thug moved all his stuff backwards into the top right corner and made me march across the whole map to get there over a dozen turns, and then my units routed as soon as they tried to attack his army in the hills so he messaged me "This is a really great game! I love this!!"

And that was the very last PBEM game I tried. Single player is the only way to get a fair battle without cheating and weird bragging.
That has not been my experience, I think you must have been very unlucky and should give MP another try. I have come across opponents "camping" and yes,it is frustrating,but I have found such instances to be fairly rare. My opponents have,almost without exception,been polite and reasonable. Regarding chat during games, some people do and some people don't. If they chat I try to respond, if they prefer to remain silent, that is fine by me.

Holien
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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by Holien » Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:36 pm

GiveWarAchance wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:21 pm
Silence is golden unless it is a proven decent person. I only tried PBEM briefly when Fog2 was new cause everyone I played was camping on the edge of the map hiding on hills behind rivers so it got too depressing for me. But as for ingame chat, the only messages I got were cryptic bragging like one thug moved all his stuff backwards into the top right corner and made me march across the whole map to get there over a dozen turns, and then my units routed as soon as they tried to attack his army in the hills so he messaged me "This is a really great game! I love this!!"

And that was the very last PBEM game I tried. Single player is the only way to get a fair battle without cheating and weird bragging.
Hi, sorry to read that you had that experience and like Doyley50 I have had generally good games. I am lucky that I came across one player who is very friendly and given me a lot of friendly play tests before I got involved in the DL. I do think computer games can attract folk that might not have the best social skills and that is where chat can help. A bit of empthay when poor dice rolls kill your key general or your unit double drops choesion help to mitigate it, but not everyone has those skills. I have seen the the EGL is perhaps one to get involved in and once my game load decreases I might investigate taking part as I want to play tough games but not necessarily folk that take it too seriously.

I am not sure how anyone can cheat the system? I know folk can camp but that is usually down to a force mismatch and can be handled by agreeing to a draw. The Fluff Miester has a good example of this is a recent video he uploaded and I think he dealt with it fairly in game, he explained well on the video his logic.

For me the AI is OK every now and then but human players come up with more challenge and a bit of chat helps too...

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by GiveWarAchance » Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:13 pm

Well the reason I will most probably not play PBEM again is because almost 100% of my opponents would camp on hills behind rivers and make me spend many turns trudging across the map to get to their perfect positions just for me to soon rout and lose the game. It was really depressing and made me hate the game and stop playing fog2 until Fog Empires came out and then that got me back into it again by letting me use both games together in single player, and now I play the campaigns both historical and sandbox which are good cause they continue on instead of just one single battle. The problem with going for draws in PBEM is I could counter the campers by just camping as well, but it's boring and may as well just quit the game and go back to single player cause the AI doesn't camp on optimal terrain waiting and neither do I so we have a fair battle. Historically that never worked either because of supply limitations and armies were too expensive to leave sitting on a hill for months, but they sometimes did it for up to a week and then one side would move away or do a feint to lure the other army off their hill finally. I'm not blaming Fog2 at all and really like the game and Medieval is good too as well as very hard in single player which is enough for me.

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by deeter » Wed Nov 03, 2021 8:26 pm

Corner camping: Widely hated yet commonly done. Done it myself when faced with an army mismatch. In a recent game, my opponent appealed to my sense of sportsmanship to leave a very strong position which I did. I was defeated and he then gloated about how he tricked me. Whatever.

I quit FOG years ago due to corner campers, too-cute army lists and the cluttered maps. Came back during the lockdown to maintain my sanity which it has, but the same abuses still prevail and I'm at the point of leaving competitive play again. The game is okay and the community is great, but human nature requires that we seek every advantage to win no matter how sleezy. FOG seems to encourage this behavior especially among the higher level players. Corner camping could be ended now by the simple expedient of putting a victory point in the middle of the map.

My recent battles have been a series of corner-camper or foot vs. horse archer engagements. Not much fun. I would rather lose a ripping field battle than win as a corner camper. EGL is a good alternative because no one is keeping score.

Deeter

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by GiveWarAchance » Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:06 am

deeter, I wonder about rematches. The only games I enjoyed PBEM with were the SSG games like Battles in Normandy/Italy cause I knew the opponents and we had normal games that were very good. So once I got to know them, I knew they were legit players and then could play them anytime without fear. So when Fog2 players cheat, they can't play their victims again and lose PBEM opportunities or hopefully not anyways unless a tournament forces people to replay cheaters.

I know how infantry vs horse archers must be frustrating. It was in real life too and sometimes the infantry actually won or got a technical win like crusaders won the Battle of Arsuf with a kind of defensive victory.

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by deeter » Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:20 pm

None of these issues are actually cheating. The only cheat I know of is multiple restarts and those are now being monitored in league games. Still players of every stripe will go for the advantage if offered in a competitive game and that includes camping. Battles with nothing at stake tend to be less obnoxious and may be my preference going forward. There are many interesting and fun opponents here, but competition seems to bring out the worst. As for foot vs. horse, it's possible for foot armies to win, it's just incredibly boring.

Sorry to highjack this thread about silent opponents. I like to chat but it's not mandatory and sometimes difficult given language and personality differences.

Deeter

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by GiveWarAchance » Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:18 am

Yes not a cheat, and I should have said cheesing through the game. I guess if you were to go and win against someone camping it might be satisfying but I always lost when attacking into their favorite terrain.

In the SSG games, some regular opponents and i always left one line of message with each turn usually just a hint at what happened good or bad. Sometimes they would have a good turn and say something like "I'm finally have some luck with the rolls" and then I felt some trepidation when starting the turn replay knowing my army would take some big hits, but other times they would admit going down in flames or a big plan was failing. or we'd comment about opponent's style like "wow your attacks are quite brutal" or something. I like this style best but don't mind silence either if people prefer.

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by markleslie » Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:37 am

I find the practise to be counter productive (as well as annoying and tedious) because if the position is too strong why on earth would anyone oblige them. There are no stakes in or out of competition worth indulging this style of play.

In this, my usual position is, "bugger that"! There are plenty of ways to be bored without playing a game to do it.

Click through the turns and get out as soon as possible, you lose nothing but time.

As you mention earlier, pairing Empire with FOG is always diverting and the AI never faffs about.

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by Holien » Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:07 am

This thread has morped somewhat and I am playing Markleslie in the tourney and it might be said I have terrain to camp on... :wink: (Not that Mark has said that but after reading the thread and thinking about it, that could be the case..)

I am not going to comment on our game until it has finished and will use it as an example in another thread about camping which might already exist as I guess it is as old as the hills people sit on...

:D

I also played Deeter in the Tourney and enjoyed the game but again it involved hills and back at his base line, I had absolutely no problem with his approach and will discuss else where when I have a bit more time.

Glad GiveWaraChance clarified his cheating comments and that has cleared that up, thanks...

More later in another thread I think...

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by deeter » Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:03 pm

And you will recall I left those hills to be defeated on the plains. If the Gods put hills down for you, the y should be utilized. My problem is with marching to a corner and sitting there, but that's in the game so I suppose that's kosher.

Deeter

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by GiveWarAchance » Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:13 pm

deeter, did Holien mollify you with honeyed words to leave those comforting hills? I think charismatic appeals to honor and chivalry are another layer to online games.

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by Holien » Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:53 am

deeter wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:03 pm
And you will recall I left those hills to be defeated on the plains. If the Gods put hills down for you, the y should be utilized. My problem is with marching to a corner and sitting there, but that's in the game so I suppose that's kosher.

Deeter
OK that is useful to know, I need to spin up another thread but will do so this weekend when I have time inbetween turns for the DL and WTC and garden jobs...

As I said I had no problem with what you did... (anyway another thread on what camping means to folk... it could already exist so I need to search forum)

:)

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by deeter » Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:27 pm

GWA, actually we were too busy discussing politics to say much about the game. I came down to save a light chariot and things just got out of hand.

There are plenty of threads about camping, but it's still a useful subject to explore I think.

Deeter

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Re: In game chat - the brick wall of silence?

Post by Holien » Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:56 pm

GiveWarAchance wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:13 pm
deeter, did Holien mollify you with honeyed words to leave those comforting hills? I think charismatic appeals to honor and chivalry are another layer to online games.
I don't in competition games make any appeals and accept what a player does. So I was happy with Deeters apporoach, I thought I could make a bit of headway so I decided to press forward.

However in a friendly where I am comfortable with the person I am playing, and we have an empathy with one another, that is a different matter as those games are for different purposes. So I am more open in discussion as it is more about learning or testing one anothers forces.

Sunday I will do some digging on threads and see what has been said already and see if I have anything useful to add...

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