Heroes.

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stormbringer3
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Heroes.

Post by stormbringer3 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:26 pm

How often on average will you get a Hero? When I look at some of the AARs it seems that there are a lot of Heros in the Core Group that the players put up. I'm in 1940 Reims and in the last 3 scenarois I've gotten 1 Hero.
Thanks for any opinions.

hugh2711
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Re: Heroes.

Post by hugh2711 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:16 pm

The heroes depend on the number of 'kills'. In the grand campaign the benchmarks are (correct me if I am wrong anyone) 100, 300 and 1000+. specifically after 100 kills for a unit you then have something like a 1 in 20 chance of getting a hero for it every time you kill something. so by the time you get to 300 kills for one unit you should have your first hero for that unit. 300 to 1000 you should get your second hero and 1000+ you should get your third. three is the maximum. in the grand campaign you do get given some units with a hero already. these are hardcoded by the scenario designer beforehand. e.g. in the second scenario of gc39 you get given the free unit 'oleh dir' who has i+3 and movement +3. this takes up one 'hero slot' for that particular unit . you can then earn another two heroes for him. the heroes dont depend on the scenario at all.
different campaigns have different benchmarks e.g. I think the numbers are different (lower) in the 'vanilla 'wermacht' basic campaign.

So it really pays to 'farm' heroes e.g
use your 88mm as an anti-tank gun in the easy early scenarios to build up the kills and get a really useful hero later on. a +1 range or a +3 attack on an 88 is great!
use a strat bomber early on to kill units on a river and to kill naval units as they are big earners to get a hero.
use fighters to strafe when idle in the earlier easy scenarios to make them tougher.

goose_2
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Re: Heroes.

Post by goose_2 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:09 am

What I do is in the early Campaigns.
39-41
I buy a lot more units then, hopefully, I will ever need. Then I farm them out for the best heroes.
Early on I sell crappy 1st heroes and try again. (Crappy, like spotting on artillery and Anti tank units.)

So I will have about 12 infantry. (besides the ones given you by the game)
Any spotting heroes I will turn into Kradschutzen as that 4 Spotting is just awesome.
I buy a lot of Gebirsjaeger's as they are the best early on, cheap and better at firing first.

Tanks, I usually have 2 Pz2C's that I use later to convert to Flamm's, Albert Kerscher, and 2 other bought tanks, otherwise there are so many tanks that you get free in France, and Russia, that you do not need to purchase much else to hero farm with them.

Anti-tanks are super tricky to use and gain experience on as early on they are not too handy, but I recommend trying to build up at least 4.

Recon's, next time I play I will use 3 I think to hero farm to at least get one that has a +1 Spotting hero. The 1 I have now that has a +1 Spotting Hero is pretty slick.

Artillery. I have more artillery than any other units. I can't even count them. They are so easy to gain experience that once you get great heroes on them they become the only ones you use.

Fighter's: Something like 6 to 8 to hero farm with as you will need some BA Fighters in order to survive in the air in the latter years.

Anti- Aircraft: Hero Farm at least 3 if not 5. Once you get on with a +1 Movement, thank God that you have been blessed with one of the best units in the game. These can become beasts when used correctly on the battlefield.

Tac Bombers: I have a group of 4 Tank Bombers and 4 Fighter Bombers. Easy to Hero Farm with.

Strat Bombers: These rarely get heroes so try building up 3 to 5 and sell any with a first hero that you do not like and use the one or 2 with the best heroes.

This is what works for me.

Hope this helps.
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hugh2711
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Re: Heroes.

Post by hugh2711 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:42 am

I think if you get too many and try to farm them all you dont get very far you spread out the goodies too much. Goose_2 is a better player than me BUT I would not have more than 2 strat bombers. I have the main one that I farm i.e. nurture to build up my kill score. I also have a second one as there are a couple of scenarios that you could use two however i DONT farm the second one hence I always get two heroes on the main one and am well on the way to third. If i get a rubbish hero on the farmed one yes I dump it and I start farming again.
Anti-tanks i only have and farm one as everything an anti-tank can do a good tank can do better and I would rather build up the heroes on the tanks as (I agree) anti-tanks can be very tricky. I would only have one main (farmed) and one backup (not farmed) 88 and one skdfz7/1 mobile AA (farmed) as I farm a very strong and large fighter force right from the beginning.
Tac bombers; you get given super-rudel and the one from spoils of war that are already so hero strong I dont think you need lots. If you want them for tank killers later on then perhaps a very strong heroed up tank force is better.
Different people have different styles. It is worth looking up the list of free heroes (look for the 'captured units thread' its on that thread) to find out what ones you are given free and what ones you lack.

ycloon
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Re: Heroes.

Post by ycloon » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:59 pm

I've never tried hero farming before, but I suppose it is viable in the GCs because of the experience caps and the fact that you get a full refund of the purchase price when you disband a unit (replacement costs are not refunded).

My current approach to heroes is to reload the turn if I get a hero that I think is pretty useless for the unit. Discarded a number of heroes that way. Reloading can be a bit tiresome though, so I might give farming a try at least for frontline units (infantry, armor, fighters). I prefer to organize my corps into divisions with pre-designated unit numbers, so farming might be a bit of a disruption because some units will be disbanded.

As for the scripted heroes, they are 'hardcoded' in specific scenarios in the sense that they are units that are placed in certain locations on the maps and they become available in certain turns. It is possible to use the scenario editor to re-position the hero units, although I don't think people will want to do that. I personally think they are fun, but quite OP; as a gaming challenge, I'm making a small mod (GC East only) that has shuts down scripted heroes and SE units.

dalfrede
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Re: Heroes.

Post by dalfrede » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:39 pm

To actually answer your question.
Heroes are given for kills.
The ‘hero kill range’ is set in the ‘gamerules.pzdat’ file.
[first Hero], [second Hero], [third Hero]
[50-100], [101-200], [201-500] - Standalone campaigns
[100-300], [301-1000], [1001-2000] - GC
[50-150], [151-500], [501-1000] - Us Corp

For example I had a Ju87 with 297 kills and no heroes.
I made an attack, got a A+3 hero.
Next turn, a second attack received a D+3 hero.

It was several turns later that I realized that both hero’s were on one unit.

stormbringer3
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Re: Heroes.

Post by stormbringer3 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:16 pm

Thanks for the info, it really helped. Another question. I have the understanding that the Heroes can be a +1 to +3. Is that value completely random or do the higher numbers appear as you advance further inth the game?
Thanks again.

dalfrede
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Re: Heroes.

Post by dalfrede » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:25 pm

Attack and Defense heroes can be +1, +2, +3; others are limited to +1 .
They are all random.

stormbringer3
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Re: Heroes.

Post by stormbringer3 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:24 pm

I just got a Stuka with two +3 attack heroes. Is there a point of diminishing returns so that I should hope my next hero on that unit is a defense hero? It's possible to have a +9 attack or defense on a unit. What would be considered a good mix?
Thanks for any opinions.

proline
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Re: Heroes.

Post by proline » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:13 am

stormbringer3 wrote:I just got a Stuka with two +3 attack heroes. Is there a point of diminishing returns so that I should hope my next hero on that unit is a defense hero? It's possible to have a +9 attack or defense on a unit. What would be considered a good mix?
Thanks for any opinions.
For front-line combat units (infantry, tanks, AT, fighters) defense heroes are always better than attack heroes of the same value. For units that aren't involved in melee combat (artillery, recon, bombers, AA) attack heroes are better than defense heroes. The more attack your Stuka gets, the more it will smash Russian heavy tanks. Enjoy.

PoorOldSpike
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Re: Heroes.

Post by PoorOldSpike » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:08 am

For good measure there's also a thread here that discusses heroes-
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... ilit=+hero

And in it Panzerpimp makes this comment same as Dalfrede about what attributes are automatically assigned to each hero-
"Random number from 1 to 3 for attack and defense.
For movement, spotting, range, initiative bonus is +1.
3 Heroes maximum per unit.
You can also get some special scripted heroes in the campaigns with huge bonuses."

stormbringer3
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Re: Heroes.

Post by stormbringer3 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:36 am

Is there a finite supply of a certain kind or hero? For example, can you eventually use up all the +3 attack heros?
Thanks for any info.

proline
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Re: Heroes.

Post by proline » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:29 am

No the heroes are random both the type of hero and the modifier amounts for attack and defense. In theory, you could go a whole campaign and get nothing but +3 Attack heroes.

stormbringer3
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Re: Heroes.

Post by stormbringer3 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:10 am

Thanks proline. That's the answer I hoped for.

AnalogGamer
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Re: Heroes.

Post by AnalogGamer » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:58 am

I run the same core force with no rotation of extras. This earns my boys maximum experience and heroes per unit.

I have a Tac Bomber with three heroes that equal +4 attack. A Pair of Wurfs with +3 attack each and one has a +1 move.

Initiative seems to be best for armor, fighters and pioneers. These are units that absolutely need to fire first.

One thing that I would love to see is an "ammo" hero. Either adds 1 or 2 ammo or reduces ammo consumption by 50%.

stormbringer3
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Re: Heroes.

Post by stormbringer3 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:12 pm

I read some old posts stating that it was very difficult to get above 2 Heroes on AA units. I Hero farm and my 88s have a movement Hero. If those posts are correct and two is what to expect, what would be the best 2nd Hero to have?
Thanks for any opinions.

goose_2
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Re: Heroes.

Post by goose_2 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:57 pm

stormbringer3 wrote:I read some old posts stating that it was very difficult to get above 2 Heroes on AA units. I Hero farm and my 88s have a movement Hero. If those posts are correct and two is what to expect, what would be the best 2nd Hero to have?
Thanks for any opinions.

This is not the case.

I have an 88 with 3 heroes.

First 2 were movement heroes, 3rd was +2 Attack hero.

The best hero to get on an 88 is by far the +1 Movement hero.

Farm for that one and you will not be disappointed.

I now have a +3 Def AA; +2 Att/+2 Movement AA; +3 Att/+1 Range AA; and another +1 Movement 88. So Daddy very happy with my farming. ;)
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hugh2711
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Re: Heroes.

Post by hugh2711 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:50 pm

Goose I would have to politely disagree, I think the best hero for an 88 is Range + 1 followed by Move+1. For the third I would go for (assuming no more extra range) an attack+ 3 if you are mostly going to use it as AA or D+3 if you are going to use it alot as AT. So I would say the best third one depends on the campaign.

stormbringer3
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Re: Heroes.

Post by stormbringer3 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:04 pm

Thanks for the answers. So far I've been using the 88s for both AA and AT since I'm only in 1941. I have read that a late game 88 loses some effectiveness as an AT. Planning ahead, which would be a better late game strategy focusing on the AA or AT aspect?
Thanks again.

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Re: Heroes.

Post by captainjack » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:59 am

I'd rather a move hero on an 88 as it can more often get soemwhere useful, whether as an AT, to attack an aircraft or to provide defence. The range only affects the ability to attack an enemy aircraft on yoor turn, but is no help when you want to provide air defence or move your AT unit into attack range. That doesn't mean I don't like range heroes on AA, as they can be very useful. It's just that I would normally convert it to a mobile so I get reasonable range plus improved ability provide air defence (which for me compensates for the lack of AT function on mobile AA).

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